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Thread: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

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    New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    So we stopped our pool "service" last week and I'm taking back control. This is a new (to us) pool--2 yrs old. 12,500 gals according to the company that installed the pool. Gunite, in-ground pool with a spa.

    We've had problems keeping the pH and Total Alkalinity constant but think I've finally gotten there. Today, pH is 7.4-7.5 and TA is 80. CH is 280. CYA is 60. (We have a Pentair 320 inline chlorinator which does not seem to be dissolving tablets at the moment so I'm going to empty it).

    Our biggest problem is chlorine. It constantly measures 0 (both FC & CC). We have had problems with green algae on the south wall which is in the shade. The rest of the pool is in full sun during the day and reaches about 93F. The algae has seemed to have cleared up after the last shock and getting the pH down from 8+.

    I started using generic 8.25% bleach 2 nights ago but I'm still getting 0 chlorine when testing. I've also started running the pump at night for 8hrs as well as adding chems at dusk or as soon as everyone is out the pool. The pump is a variable speed and I run at 2750rpms to get a 9gpm flow out the cartridge filter.

    Based on what I've read so far, I'd like to target a chlorine level of about 5. The pool calculator says I should add 94oz of 8.25% (which I'm getting from Home Depot for $2.97/121oz). Now, assuming I'm able to get to that level and all the other numbers pan out, does that mean that is how much I should be adding daily to maintain? That will work out to about 6 gals/week or about $75-80/week. Which seems a bit high to me.

    Am I missing something?

    Thanks!
    Bill W
    12,500gal, inground gunite with iAqualink controls, Jandy variable-speed pump, and no longer using the Pentair chlorinator. Using Trouble-free for over a month and loving it!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    What test kit do you have?

    With your CYA already up to 60ppm, you need to stop using the trichlor tablets.

    The the presence of algae, and the inability to have FC show up, you need to follow the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process to eradicate whatever is in your water.

    After you pass the 3 criteria to stop, then you go into maintenance mode. It is normal to need to add 2-3ppm of FC each day. Which is less than a 1/2 bottle of bleach per day or about $1.50 per day.
    I have no idea how you think 6 gallons/week = $80/week
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Welcome to TFP!!

    Before I stick my foot in my mouth by guessing, I have a couple of questions:

    Where is Rosenberg? Sometimes the climate matters. Pool care in Ontario is different from South Florida.

    What are you using to get your numbers?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    epro05's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Check that Home Depot Bleach for the manufacturing date code. Bleach loses strength over time and I've seen some really old bleach at Home Depot.

    One recent poster bought bleach at HD which was basically water due to decomposition of the strength, and of course the chlorine level in the pool did not budge after adding it.

    I do not buy bleach if it is over 1 month old.

    Here is a link to help you with the date code.
    27,500 gallon in ground gunite/plaster (1995). Attached Spa with fountain, spillway, and 2 lion heads streaming into the pool. Hayward pump and AO Smith UST1152 1.5 hp motor (single speed). Hayward 60 sq ft DE Filter (Model DE-6000). Kreepy Krauly cleaner.

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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    If in fact your CYA is 60 your range is 5 - 7 FC. Where 5 is the bare minimum you should ever have. Anything below that you're starting to ask for trouble.

    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

    Be sure that you use the above chart and map your FC targets accordingly. In my situation I use 2 ppm per day. Sometimes 3 of FC. I'm at 50ppm CYA so my range is technically 4-6. I am more comfortable dosing to 7 each morning and by the next morning I almost always am at 5 still 1 full ppm ahead of minimum. On occasion with more use I'm at 4 or just below 4. I personally like the extra protection. Probably not 100% necessary but it's what works for me. I've never had algae and register .5 or less CC's. I've hit 1cc a couple of times and then I know I just need to do some extra brushing, vacuuming and just check things over. By the next morning I'm all good.

    That said, you do need to SLAM. What I'm talking about is more ongoing maintenance.
    ~19k Gal, IG Vinyl, Hayward SP2607X10 1hp pump, Hayward S200 Sand Filter, built in 70s, has 8 deep end with diving board, 1 skimmer, 1 return, 1 low hole, Polaris booster pump PB4-60, old Polaris robot not sure model, Rheem P-M266A-EN-C 266,000 BTU heater, solar cover, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Speedstir

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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Welcome to TFP!!!

    What test kit do you have?

    With your CYA already up to 60ppm, you need to stop using the trichlor tablets.

    The the presence of algae, and the inability to have FC show up, you need to follow the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process to eradicate whatever is in your water.

    After you pass the 3 criteria to stop, then you go into maintenance mode. It is normal to need to add 2-3ppm of FC each day. Which is less than a 1/2 bottle of bleach per day or about $1.50 per day.
    I have no idea how you think 6 gallons/week = $80/week

    Oops. Forgot that info.

    Rosenberg TX, southwest of Houston.

    I have a Taylor K-2005 test kit.

    I meant to type $80/MONTH not week. ($18/week, 4 weeks to a month).

    Off to read SLAM. Actually saw that in my reading but thought that was the TFPC equivalent of shocking. Will go back and read closely.

    Hmmm. didn't know about the expiration date thing. I"ll have to check that out. Thanks for that tidbit!

    OH, one other thing. the local leslie's pool store tests for phosphates and tells me I have 100ppm. I'm pretty sure they are trying to sell me their phosphate-free (or whatever it's called) Am I right or should I worry about that as well ?

    Bill W
    12,500gal, inground gunite with iAqualink controls, Jandy variable-speed pump, and no longer using the Pentair chlorinator. Using Trouble-free for over a month and loving it!

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Good morning Bill. Let's save you some $$. Ignore the phosphates. In fact, ignore the pool store all together if you can.

    The K2005 is good, but the K2006 is better. The K2006 includes a chlorine test, the FAS-DPD that has a color change to indicate chlorine level rather than the color matching test. The FAS-DPD has a very high test range so it can be used while you are shocking the pool. But don't worry. You can get the FAS-DPD test to add to your kit at

    http://duraleighcon378.corecommerce....-test-p47.html

    This is the TFTestKits site and is a reputable place with fast shipping.

    Have a great day!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    If you update the state in your profile it will show up on every post and people will stop asking.
    TFP Moderator
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Quote Originally Posted by wweissborn View Post
    I have a Taylor K-2005 test kit.

    Off to read SLAM. Actually saw that in my reading but thought that was the TFPC equivalent of shocking. Will go back and read closely.

    OH, one other thing. the local leslie's pool store tests for phosphates and tells me I have 100ppm. I'm pretty sure they are trying to sell me their phosphate-free (or whatever it's called) Am I right or should I worry about that as well ?

    Bill W
    Bill, three things:

    You need to purchase the individual FAD-DPD test to turn your K-2005 kit into a K-2006. The kit you have is limited to 10ppm chlorine testing and you will need to read higher than that to SLAM

    Shocking is throwing an unscientific amount of chlorine in the pool once and expecting it to clean up your problems. A SLAM is a continuous process by which you maintain the shock level of chlorine in your pool until it is proved by three distinct tests that everything in the water is dead.

    Yes, Leslie's is trying to sell you a magic potion for phosphates. Phosphates are a made up problem by the pool industry to be able to sell you more unneeded stuff. In a properly balanced and chlorinated pool phosphates are irrelevant.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    FAS-DPD test kit will be here first of next week. Looks like I'll be shooting for an FC level of 24 during the SLAM based on my CYA level (60).

    Should I pull the filter cartridges and give them a good cleaning before starting? Seems reasonable to me even though we did that about a month ago.

    Also, with this variable-speed pump, what kind of flow rate should I look for during and after SLAM? Right now I have the speed set such that I get about 9gpm (gal per minute) and am running from 2200 to 0600

    Bill W
    12,500gal, inground gunite with iAqualink controls, Jandy variable-speed pump, and no longer using the Pentair chlorinator. Using Trouble-free for over a month and loving it!

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Good moring Bill! You're right about the projected SLAM FC level. Clean the filter? .. you can. You will be doing it more during the SLAM as well. When I SLAMmed a couple years back, my filter was always green until I beat it. You can also keep brushing and sweeping to keep any visible algae broken-up. As for the pump speed, I'm not a VS owner, but I know it doesn't need to be on high, just simply running 24/7 during the SLAM to keep the water moving. Perhaps a low to mid-range, but someone with VS experience may reply to confirm. It may say on the SLAM page (link below), but I"m heading-off to work.

    Let us know when you get your FAS-DPD and we'll help you kick that algae in the butt. Enjoy your holiday weekend!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Test kit arrived late yesterday so I started the SLAM this afternoon after cleaning the filter cartridges. Got FC to about 26 (target was 24). PH and TA were spot on, 7.5 and 90. It is now 4 hours later and just checked the FC and PH. PH is purple. Never saw that color before. I know I need to add chlorine to get back to my 24 but the SLAM doc says nothing about trying to maintain PH. Should I add acid to get back into 7.5-7.8 range? The doc does say that PH readings will be unreliable during the process so should I just ignore?

    TIA

    Bill W
    12,500gal, inground gunite with iAqualink controls, Jandy variable-speed pump, and no longer using the Pentair chlorinator. Using Trouble-free for over a month and loving it!

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Hello again Bill. Don't add acid or worry about your PH at this point now that your FC is so high. It will not test correctly. Just press-on with the SLAM and maintain that FC level. Have a good evening.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    The pH test reads fasely high when FC is above 10 ppm.
    27,500 gallon in ground gunite/plaster (1995). Attached Spa with fountain, spillway, and 2 lion heads streaming into the pool. Hayward pump and AO Smith UST1152 1.5 hp motor (single speed). Hayward 60 sq ft DE Filter (Model DE-6000). Kreepy Krauly cleaner.

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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Kewl. Off to add bleach only then.
    12,500gal, inground gunite with iAqualink controls, Jandy variable-speed pump, and no longer using the Pentair chlorinator. Using Trouble-free for over a month and loving it!

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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    2 and 3/4 days and 10gals of fresh 8.25% bleach and I'm still having to add bleach. During the day it is worse, about 121 oz or so every two hours. Next morning about a jug full to bring it back to 24.

    Water is crystal clear and CC is next to 0 (something like .5 if my math is right). Wife wants to know how much longer and I'm wondering if I shouldn't test CYA again to make sure it is still 60?

    Only thing in the pool when we started were a few grass clippings that blew in but those have been fished out.

    Am I getting close?

    Bill W.
    12,500gal, inground gunite with iAqualink controls, Jandy variable-speed pump, and no longer using the Pentair chlorinator. Using Trouble-free for over a month and loving it!

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    epro05's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    I assume your original CYA of 60 was from a pool store since you didn't have your kit at that time. Have you tested CYA with your new kit? If not, please test it and report the results here.
    27,500 gallon in ground gunite/plaster (1995). Attached Spa with fountain, spillway, and 2 lion heads streaming into the pool. Hayward pump and AO Smith UST1152 1.5 hp motor (single speed). Hayward 60 sq ft DE Filter (Model DE-6000). Kreepy Krauly cleaner.

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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    CYA was originally tested by myself, via the K-2005 kit, and the local Leslie's to be 60ppm when I started the SLAM Saturday. Unfortunately, I discovered that I'm out of R-0013 and so is the local Leslie's so I had them test CYA. They now come up with 30ppm. So I went back to pool school and read the article about CYA degradation. Seems that over-chlorinating can "use up" some CYA if I understand the chemistry correctly. So I have now gone back to the CYA/Chlorine chart and see that my new target FC is 12 for SLAM. Current FC is 17.5 and no CC

    So now I have the following questions:
    1) Should I add some CYA to bring me back up a notch on the CYA scale?
    2) Should I trust the local pool store's test results? (I'm not sure I do)
    3) Do I now hold my FC to 12 and see what it ends up as in the morning?

    To paraphrase: Help me Obi-wans, ya'll are my only hope!

    Bill W
    12,500gal, inground gunite with iAqualink controls, Jandy variable-speed pump, and no longer using the Pentair chlorinator. Using Trouble-free for over a month and loving it!

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    Re: New to TFPC - Need to make sure I have this right

    Hello again Bill. To answer your questions:
    1 - No. Don't add any more stabilizer right now if you are still SLAMming
    2 - Nope. I learned to never trust their readings again. Most here would agree.
    3 - Your last "personally verified" CYA was 60. SLAM FC for that CYA level is 24. I would stay at 24 (maintain).

    Until you get more R-0013, consider your CYA 60 and press-on as before. CYA won't just drop in a day or two. Trust your first reading and go with it.

    That's my 2 1/2 cents worth.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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