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Thread: New pool wiring

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    New pool wiring

    First, thanks for this great forum! Second, if this has been done to death, please point me in the right direction (don't want to be "one of those guys)

    We just bought a Legacy family dog pool. I'm going to be about 150 ft from power. When I built my house 10 years ago I had a spa in the patio with a 60 amp 240 volt dedicated service. Got rid of the spa a few years back and since replaced the main with a 20 amp to power a new mini-split ductless HVAC system. I'm planning on installing a sub on the patio with a 4 place min service. I'll run 1, 20 amp to the HVAC and another 15 amp to the 1 1/2 hp 11 amp pool pump with a 35 amp breaker in the main. I'm running 4, 8 gauge wires, ( 2 hot, neutral and a ground) in 3/4" pvc. From what I understand, not closer than 5ft but not further than 10ft I want to install another sub at the pool. I'm running a neutral so I can split the poolside circuit for a 120 volt convenience outlet. I can't find any simple, clean poolside service that allows for a 240 volt timer and a GFI 120 volt outlet. Does anyone have a suggestion or pics? Any reason I can't (or shouldn't) hook up like this? Also I understand I do not need to bond to a soft sided pool????

    THANKS!!!
    Legacy 14 x 26 family dog pool
    Central Oregon

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New pool wiring

    Well, I,can answer one of your questions - how deep is the pool? The national Electrical Code says under 42 inches is a "storable pool" and does not need bonding. Deeper than 42" needs bonding. They do not differentiate between soft or hard sided, only depth.

    As tot he panel you are looking for, a visit to a real electrical supply house may solve your problems. The counter guys there usually have a great handle on what is available. Just don't visit at the beginning of the work day when they are trying to get all the trades folks out the door.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New pool wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Well, I,can answer one of your questions - how deep is the pool? The national Electrical Code says under 42 inches is a "storable pool" and does not need bonding. Deeper than 42" needs bonding. They do not differentiate between soft or hard sided, only depth.

    As tot he panel you are looking for, a visit to a real electrical supply house may solve your problems. The counter guys there usually have a great handle on what is available. Just don't visit at the beginning of the work day when they are trying to get all the trades folks out the door.
    This is another question too. I keep seeing arguments about bonding based on this....... 680.8 definitions:
    STORABLE SWIMMING, WADING, OR IMMERSION POOL.
    Those that are constructed on or above ground and are capable of holding water to a maximum depth of 42" "OR" a pool with non-metallic, molded polymeric walls or inflatable fabric walls regardless of dimension.

    So to me the key word is "OR" I don't know and that's an example of on of the discussions I've found and pasted here. I found one electrical forum where 2 guys were really going at it over this. (I like your avatar Tim, I've always had GSD's and one of the reasons for the pool is "Ranger" loves to swim!)
    Legacy 14 x 26 family dog pool
    Central Oregon

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New pool wiring

    Well, here is the copy of the NEC I generally use: Article 680 - Swimming Pool Installations

    What you cite, 680.8 deals with overhead clearances

    680.2 Definitions does not have that "or" at all. You could stop by your local AHJ and ask to se their adopted code.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New pool wiring

    I just found another copy of 680.2 and it does have your "or",

    Storable Swimming, Wading, or Immersion Pool. Those that are constructed on or above the ground and are capable of holding water to a maximum depth of 1.0 m (42 in.), or a pool with nonmetallic, molded polymeric walls or inflat- able fabric walls regardless of dimension.
    But, using the definition of a storable pool then takes you to what you do with storable pools:
    680.31 Pumps. A cord-connected pool filter pump shall incorporate an approved system of double insulation or its equivalent and shall be provided with means for grounding only the internal and nonaccessible non-current-carrying metal parts of the appliance.
    The means for grounding shall be an equipment grounding conductor run with the power-supply conductors in the flexible cord that is properly terminated in a grounding-type attachment plug having a fixed grounding contact member.
    Cord-connected pool filter pumps shall be provided with a ground-fault circuit interrupter that is an integral part of the attachment plug or located in the power supply cord within 300 mm (12 in.) of the attachment plug.
    This is where I have to say I'm not sure..... This could mean a storable pool can only have a cord connected pump. It would seem logical, as a storable,pool usually comes as a complete kit, pool, pump, filter etc.

    I'm guessing this is where the electrical forum was having discussions. The final authority is your AHJ (building department).
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New pool wiring

    The thing to keep in mind on this whole bonding thing is this...Voltage gradients don't care weather a pool is storable/temporary or not. The bonding code was not added to be a pain in the rear and something to rejoice about if it does not apply to you. I have seen permanent pools that had no voltage gradients that still had the bonding grid attached and had to fix a fair number of "temp" pools that had shocking problems.

    680.31 is referring to pumps that come with storable pools. Storable pool pumps are required to have the double insulated feature as well as the internal grounding means. This does not mean that a pool with a double insulated pump is a storable pool as there are several manufactures that make them now (pumps). If the pump is a double insulated rated pump it does not need to be bonded and generally does not have a bonding lug. All storable pools are required to have the double insulated feature as well as a GFCI plug on the end of the cord. If you decide to connect the pool pump on a storable pool with a permanent wiring means, you are now defeating the UL listing for that device
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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