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Thread: False negative metals test??

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    False negative metals test??

    06-13-2015, 10:22 AMRichard320
    Re: False negative metals test??

    Quote Originally Posted by smithp View Post
    Thanks. Will retreat AA. Add sequestrant. Paper towels. We'll see.
    I think you want the rust to appear so you can snag it. Don't sequester it yet. Let the pool turn orange/brown and remove the Iron with paper towels or pillow filling. Then treat whatever's left.

    06-13-2015, 10:39 AMduraleigh
    Re: False negative metals test??
    +1 what Richard says. That's iron. Your sand filter will also filter it out (now that it has precipitated).


    Today, 12:29 PMsmithp
    Re: False negative metals test??

    Need to borrow a big truck and trailer. Going to drag pool off into the woods and leave it.

    Apparently haven't gotten the metals out. Every time I add chlorine it goes brown. Any step by step on how to make a filter (like I have seen in pics posted) to catch the metals or do the paper towels work as well (did not seem to work for me).

    So if I am hearing right, raise chlorine from 0 (where it is), let metals precipitate, do the paper towels, then add AA for stains and Metal Magic (or magic mike) as the wife calls it to keep metals in solution???

    Man this pool makes me feel dumb!
    IG-vinyl liner, 39,000 gallons, Hayward 1 1/2 hp super pump, Sand filter (not sure on flow)
    Locale - NE Texas

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    Re: False negative metals test??

    Thanks. Great video. How do you think I could attach it to my return on my I ground pool. Screw it into water jet somehow?
    All my numbers look good just remains cloudy. Changed the sand in the filter yesterday.

    Ph 7.2
    FC 6
    TA 80
    Cya 80
    Temp 92
    IG-vinyl liner, 39,000 gallons, Hayward 1 1/2 hp super pump, Sand filter (not sure on flow)
    Locale - NE Texas

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: False negative metals test??

    Hi there. if youre in experimental, but sick-of-iron mode, i have some additional ideas for you to try if you like:

    Not a cheap DIY but there is a thing you can buy called a slimebag that you can actually attach to a return if you buy the part as well that will help with extra filtering.
    Here's a link: The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water.

    I'm betting you're on a well, meaning your make up water has iron too? Pre-Filter your makeup water as well.

    I have not tried any of the "precipitation" tricks as after my initial recovery slam when I bought the foreclosure, I haven't had to slam since. But I also have a spigot plumbed the the softened water from the house that I use for make up water and sequester heavily using Metal Magic.
    Keeping the ph lower, eg 7.2 is, also helps.

    When my iron level was still higher I'd also tried things like a hydrogen peroxide treatment that seemed to reduce it somewhat.

    I stopped doing AA treatments when I discovered the stains came back and I ad to fight to get the FC back up...last summer I did the Proteam metal magic spnge trick from this post and added 5 quarts that handled the staining: Switching Sequestrate from EDTA to HEDP

    At some point I also read about FerriTabs...but since I hadn't precipitated the iron, I wasn't a candidate for usage, but if you're going brown, these might work for you: FerriTabs 2/$50 SUMMER SPECIAL! | Ask The Pool Guy

    I'm down to about .3 ppm of iron now, and no staining (but I keep high levels of sequestrant in it.) ymmv. Best wishes in your quest -- iron is a pita
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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: False negative metals test??

    Ps...I should have added that I never tried the poly fill/bucket trick because like you, I have an inground pool and didn't want to mess with the plumbing that is fixed to heater, filter and pump. To my mind, that DIY is more geared to above ground setups with underpowered filtration.

    Hence, the other suggestions, which are more compatible.

    I also want to add that you have a large pool at 39k gallons, which will take longer to clear and more to treat...can you tell me a bit of your history using metal sequestrants?

    It may be that you're simply not using enough for your volume, or not maintaining the sequestrant level adequately by replenishing it enough for your water source.

    While it sorta sucks, it is possible to arrive at a place where you control the iron adequately to keep the pool clear and avoid stains...lots of people on well do it, because a water change is risky to some (water table) and the only other real option is to truck in water...which still begets the draining-a-vinyl-liner pool risk -- and if you're on well, you're still adding iron thereafter.

    My first, best tip is to avoid having to slam ever by opening early, closing late, and being vigilant about FC in between Slamming precipitates the iron.

    If you have a house softener system, you also may wish to consider upgrading to a dual tank for capacity and plumbing a line out to near your pool. You still have to watch the softener for gallons-left or you'll be putting iron back in, but its a way to on-goingly reduce the iron load.

    Also, in case you hadn't come across the info previously..,with the recc sequestrants like Metal Magic and jacks magic, they should be used initially, eg start up doses, when FC is lower and you don't plan to slam for 7 days.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: False negative metals test??

    Anyone following this thread should be cautious about trying newfound "tips and tricks" on getting rid of metals. It just isn't that easy.

    Secondly, all these ideas seem to never take into account HOW MUCH iron is in your water to begin with. Isn't it logical to assume it is easier to remove ONE molecule of soluble iron as opposed to 50 parts per million?

    By far, the best thing for iron is to never let it get into your pool in the first place. Since that is often not practical, make sure you have a working knowledge of how it got there, HOW MUCH is in there and what effects will you have when you attempt to remove it.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: False negative metals test??

    Dave, some day we should do a definitive thread b/c in truth most don't/can't wholly remove iron but merely control the ppm -- in some ways its not unlike CYA

    The distinction is removing precipitated iron that is tinting the water after a slam, versus the cumulative impact of trace iron from an iron-laden source. Ultimately, the level becomes something you have to manage and whether it works or not depends on myrad variables. In most cases, I suspect posters have to deal with both phenoms whether they realize it or not.

    The slime bag is a particulate filter that some have used to filter precipitated iron. The inside of the bag will turn orange. I'd doubt, however, it would remove all the iron, or iron that is in solution. I have witnessed several threads where this appears to be reasonably effective bu ultimately, so too is a week with a sand filter.

    The ferritabs are also for precipitated iron to remove water tint after a slamming/shocking type event, and work like a fiter-floc in essence, based on some pretty typical water treatment principals and not entirely unlike Ben's calcium-in-the-skimmer trick.

    Pre filtering well water never hurts, but wont guarantee the removal of al iron/magnesium.

    Softened water makeup will ultimately work at a slow reduction, and has for me (from points at 2 ppm to now .3) but for non-vinyl pools necessitates calcium additions in some cases, and requires a consciousness around regenerating media use and balancing household usage.

    Short of an expensive phosphonic acid test, trial and error is generally the only avenue available for sequestrant maintenance...though Jack's sponge test helps identify efficacy of one-time stain treatment.

    Lastly, our reliance on AA for stain treatment sometimes doesn't address the holistic issue of iron in the source water. For me, its a last resort now, as performing an AA treatment 3 or four times a year is not only a pita, but its as expensive as renting a second soft water tank

    And of course, slamming exacerbates any latent metal issues...

    So sequestering and avoiding ever having to slam is likely the next best thing to 3 truckloads of fresh water
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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