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Thread: CSI -CH level

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    CSI -CH level

    Hi all. I am a fairly new full TFP convert. I finished my first SLAM in late April. I have complete control of my pool and LOVE it. I think I"ve been a quick learner and have even given some advice to few newbies. I seem to be struggling with keeping my CH above 250 and PH rises somewhat quickly (it seems). I'm not sure if one is related to the other and/or if it's just the excessive amounts of rain that are making it difficult. Here are my current numbers:

    FC - 6
    CC - 0
    PH - 7.4 (I had intentionally lowered it to 7.2 so it wouldn't rise too much while I'm away this week and my hubby won't baby sit the pool. We have an SWG and it seems to be set pretty well to maintain FC, but I add MA a couple of times a week. I'm also considering trying to lower the TA to see if that helps keep the PH more stable)
    TA - 75
    CYA - 75
    CH 250 (last weekend it was 225 and I added enough CH increaser to get it to 300 according to pool math, but it obviously didn't hold, lot's of rain this week)
    Salt Level - 3450 (according to my intellichlor)

    According to Pool Math, my current CSI is -.56 sooo, I'm trying to get it closer to 0.

    My questions.

    1. How concerned should I be about the CH?
    2. Should I raise the CH to 350 since I know that it seems to lower quickly?
    3. Should I be overly concerned about the CSI if all of my numbers are in place?
    4. Is my situation unusual and/or does anyone have any advice as to what I should tackle first?
    5. Is it just the battle of the Texas rain this year?

    Thanks in advance,
    Lisa
    26,000 IG, pebble tec, flagstone, pentair Triton II TR100 sand filter & VS+SVRS 3hp multi-speed pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWG, Pentair Booster Cleaner, spillover spa, waterfall, Taylor K-2006 testkit
    [It is better to know how to learn, than to know. - Dr. Seuss[/I]

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    Re: CSI -CH level

    The change in CH should not affect the pH at all. For your CH to drop, you most likely have water dilution. It could be from rain overflow if you get significant summer rains. Or you might have a leak if your fill water is lower in CH than your pool's CH.

    Since your CSI is low, you can most easily handle that AND have the pH not rise as quickly if you instead target a pH of 7.7 or 7.8 and not try and lower it much below that. The rate of carbon dioxide outgassing is lower at lower TA AND at higher pH (see this chart).

    After you settle in on a pH that works well for you, then you can add CH if you need to to get the CSI higher, but given that you have an SWG you probably want to target a slightly negative CSI such as -0.2 or -0.1 -- you don't need to hit 0.0. Finally, you can consider using 50 ppm Borates in your pool for further pH buffering and to reduce scaling in the salt cell, but you should do this after everything else is where you want it to be and note that the use of borates is optional.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    CSI -CH level

    Thank you so much Chemgeek. We have had A LOT of rain down here in Texas. I have drained my pool and/or it has overflowed several times this year, including this week. We have NEVER Had this problem before. Usually we spend our summer adding water due to evaporation. Since i have never tested CH before this rainy summer, I don't have a comparison. I figured it was due the rain, but needed reassurance .

    I did play around with pool math and saw that I could get closer to 0 with a higher ph and lower TA, so that's what I'm working on now. Glad to know, I should be shooting for a -.2 or -.1, that's helpful. I just saw it was getting close to the -.6 and didn't want to be there. and my biggest goal is to avoid another algae outbreak!!

    Thanks again and I'll keep working on lowering the TA with MA and aerating to raise the PH back up. We have an overflow spa and waterfall, plus I read the SWG aerates a bit, too.

    I don't think Borates are an option for us, because no matter how much outside water sources we provide, our golden retrievers prefer to swim in the pool and drink the water as they are swimming: or just take a rest on the tanning ledge.

    Thanks again!


    26,000 IG, pebble tec, flagstone, pentair Triton II TR100 sand filter & VS+SVRS 3hp multi-speed pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWG, Pentair Booster Cleaner, spillover spa, waterfall, Taylor K-2006 testkit
    [It is better to know how to learn, than to know. - Dr. Seuss[/I]

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    Re: CSI -CH level

    Note that lowering the TA lowers the CSI, not raises it. I was only suggesting you target a higher pH. Your TA may be fine where it is. The reason to lower the TA more is if you find the pH rising faster than you'd like.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: CSI -CH level

    It seems to be rising every other day. I've played with the numbers and have a goal in mind. We will see if I can get there -


    26,000 IG, pebble tec, flagstone, pentair Triton II TR100 sand filter & VS+SVRS 3hp multi-speed pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWG, Pentair Booster Cleaner, spillover spa, waterfall, Taylor K-2006 testkit
    [It is better to know how to learn, than to know. - Dr. Seuss[/I]

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    CSI -CH level

    I know you said you were not considering borates because of the retrievers but have you seen this post? Based on that thread, it looks like your dogs would be safe even if they got most of their water from the pool.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: CSI -CH level

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    I know you said you were not considering borates because of the retrievers but have you seen this post? Based on that thread, it looks like your dogs would be safe even if they got most of their water from the pool.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I had not, THANKS! I'll check it out! I had just read it at another location that it wasn't safe.


    26,000 IG, pebble tec, flagstone, pentair Triton II TR100 sand filter & VS+SVRS 3hp multi-speed pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWG, Pentair Booster Cleaner, spillover spa, waterfall, Taylor K-2006 testkit
    [It is better to know how to learn, than to know. - Dr. Seuss[/I]

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    Re: CSI -CH level

    Funny that someone said no one drinks their salt water. Our dogs drink the salt water and prefer the pool water. How would you train them not dink the water?


    26,000 IG, pebble tec, flagstone, pentair Triton II TR100 sand filter & VS+SVRS 3hp multi-speed pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWG, Pentair Booster Cleaner, spillover spa, waterfall, Taylor K-2006 testkit
    [It is better to know how to learn, than to know. - Dr. Seuss[/I]

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    Re: CSI -CH level

    We're being very conservative when we caution about borates and dogs. The EPA generally uses a factor of 10 Margin of Exposure safety factor for intra-species variation just in case your particular dog has a hypersensitivity to toxicity from boron. The amounts described in the post linked to are the No Observed Adverse Effect Limit (NOAEL) for the relatively small number of dogs in the study (5 per sex per dose per compound; "compound" is 2 chemicals and a control group) without that margin of exposure. Personally, I think the risk is low, but it's not the kind of "low" that we talk about when we describe human safety for chlorinated pools. So we just present the facts and let the pool and dog owner decide for themselves what they think is best.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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