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Thread: Bleach raise PH?

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    Bleach raise PH?

    1st season using the TFP method and its awesome!
    However i noticed that it appears as if the bleach raises the PH is that typical?
    Every few days i need to add a little acid.
    Located in Lebanon,Pennsylvania.. 25,000 Gallon IG Plaster Pool Installed Fall of 2011...
    Stenner 3GPD pump
    Jandy DEV60 60SqFt DE Filter (Using Puri fiber.)..,1.5Hp Jandy Pump PMPH1.5
    Aqucal SQ 166R Heater...Polaris 9400 Robot/Cleaner
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach raise PH?

    Yes. Most bleach contains excess lye (sodium hydroxide) from the manufacturing process. It also contains some salt. Regular additions of muriatic acid are normal.

    What are your latest test numbers?


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Bleach raise PH?

    Fc 6.5
    cc .5
    Alk 100
    Cya 40
    PH 8.2 ish


    Located in Lebanon,Pennsylvania.. 25,000 Gallon IG Plaster Pool Installed Fall of 2011...
    Stenner 3GPD pump
    Jandy DEV60 60SqFt DE Filter (Using Puri fiber.)..,1.5Hp Jandy Pump PMPH1.5
    Aqucal SQ 166R Heater...Polaris 9400 Robot/Cleaner
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Bleach raise PH?

    Your pH is quite high as 8.2 is the max. Your TA is fine and should only be contributing a small amount to your pH rise.

    How much acid do your normally add and what pH are you targeting? Also, how much bleach is your Stenner pump supplying each day?

    What's your fill water like?


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Bleach raise PH?

    I have the pump set to add about 3/4 gallon of 12.5% each day it seems to keep my FC in the 4-8 range. Almost every time I check CC it's 0 to.5 as high as 1.0 to 1.5 after Harvey rain. The next day returns to 0 to .5
    I figure 7.5 is a good PH target ????
    Pool math told me to add 42 oz of acid.



    Located in Lebanon,Pennsylvania.. 25,000 Gallon IG Plaster Pool Installed Fall of 2011...
    Stenner 3GPD pump
    Jandy DEV60 60SqFt DE Filter (Using Puri fiber.)..,1.5Hp Jandy Pump PMPH1.5
    Aqucal SQ 166R Heater...Polaris 9400 Robot/Cleaner
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Bleach raise PH?

    Quote Originally Posted by mkohr View Post
    I have the pump set to add about 3/4 gallon of 12.5% each day it seems to keep my FC in the 4-8 range. Almost every time I check CC it's 0 to.5 as high as 1.0 to 1.5 after Harvey rain. The next day returns to 0 to .5
    I figure 7.5 is a good PH target ????
    Pool math told me to add 42 oz of acid.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So in your pool, 96oz is 3.7ppm FC per day. That seems a bit high to me in terms of chlorine usage but not unusual if your pool gets lots of sun. Your CYA is 40ppm which is right in the middle of the suggested range. If your pool does get a lot of sun exposure, you could try bumping the CYA up to 50ppm and then see if you lose less FC per day.

    You might also try raising your FC up to 10ppm manually (shut off the Stenner) and perform an OCLT to see if you're losing less than 1ppm overnight.

    A pH of 7.5 is perfect.

    If none of the above helps, then you could try dropping your TA down to 60 or 70ppm to see if that helps maintain a more stable pH. After that, if the pH rise is still an issue, 50ppm borates with a lower TA target might help. But that's only after exhausting all the simple solutions.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Bleach raise PH?

    The pool is in 100% all sun , no shade expect for very early and very late in the day


    Located in Lebanon,Pennsylvania.. 25,000 Gallon IG Plaster Pool Installed Fall of 2011...
    Stenner 3GPD pump
    Jandy DEV60 60SqFt DE Filter (Using Puri fiber.)..,1.5Hp Jandy Pump PMPH1.5
    Aqucal SQ 166R Heater...Polaris 9400 Robot/Cleaner
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Bleach raise PH?

    Then definitely consider a bump in your CYA. I bet the sun exposure is adding to your chlorine demand. Many of the TX folks who do chlorine manually or with a Stenner report staying on the higher end of CYA during the hot sunny months. I'd bet that's true even for you Hoosiers

    Oops, my bad. Yore not in Indiana but PA. Apologies

    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Bleach raise PH?

    I did a OCLT as per your recommendation ...
    Less then 1.0 FC loss
    And .5 CC
    I also waited he 12 hours and tested again in the evening. It was an all sun , blue sky. 80+ degree day.
    My FC loss was 5 and Cc was between .5 and 1.0


    Located in Lebanon,Pennsylvania.. 25,000 Gallon IG Plaster Pool Installed Fall of 2011...
    Stenner 3GPD pump
    Jandy DEV60 60SqFt DE Filter (Using Puri fiber.)..,1.5Hp Jandy Pump PMPH1.5
    Aqucal SQ 166R Heater...Polaris 9400 Robot/Cleaner
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Bleach raise PH?

    Your CYA level is too low for the amount of sun in your pool.

    As for pH rise, the TA of 100 ppm is likely contributing to that. Most chlorinating liquid or bleach does not have enough excess lye in it to be a major contributor to rising pH. Most rising pH in residential pools comes from carbon dioxide outgassing from the water and that happens faster at higher TA and lower pH.

    With regular acid additions to lower the pH you should find your TA slowly dropping over time in which case the rate of pH rise should slow. If you want to accelerate this process you can follow the Pool School article on how to Lower Total Alkalinity.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Bleach raise PH?

    What would you recommend my CYA be? In the beginning of the season i was advised to drain about 10,000 gallons to get my CYA down from the 90+ range, maybe i went to far.
    Also what is the downside at leaving it where it is at, other than the cost of adding almost 1 gallon of bleach each day?
    Located in Lebanon,Pennsylvania.. 25,000 Gallon IG Plaster Pool Installed Fall of 2011...
    Stenner 3GPD pump
    Jandy DEV60 60SqFt DE Filter (Using Puri fiber.)..,1.5Hp Jandy Pump PMPH1.5
    Aqucal SQ 166R Heater...Polaris 9400 Robot/Cleaner
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach raise PH?

    Other than the extra chlorine you are using, no real downside. Mine is also in full sun all day and 50ish is good for me.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Bleach raise PH?

    How much granular shock or tabs would bring me upto 50CYa?


    Located in Lebanon,Pennsylvania.. 25,000 Gallon IG Plaster Pool Installed Fall of 2011...
    Stenner 3GPD pump
    Jandy DEV60 60SqFt DE Filter (Using Puri fiber.)..,1.5Hp Jandy Pump PMPH1.5
    Aqucal SQ 166R Heater...Polaris 9400 Robot/Cleaner
    TF-100 Test Kit

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