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Thread: CYA to Ammonia

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    aussieta's Avatar
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    Thumbs up CYA to Ammonia

    Moderator comment: This post was separated out from this thread: LAST DITCH EFFORT....and I don't know what to do now

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post

    Once we have verified no ammonia, or you have removed it with bleach you need to add CYA via the sock method to get your level up to 30.
    just trying to learn here but where did you find this information
    never heard you had to wait, i believed the cya to amonia conversion was a long process
    i always understood to add enough cya to get to 30 and enough fc to slam at 12
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: LAST DITCH EFFORT....and I don't know what to do now

    This is still a working theory that has been more prevalent this pool season. The idea is that if there is bacteria in the water converting cya to ammonia that first we need to get rid of ammonia and the bacteria by slamming. Then we need to add cya and continue slamming. That way we aren't adding more cya for the the bacteria to convert to even more ammonia.
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: CYA to Ammonia

    pooldv is correct, it is kind of a work in progress. We are finding that sometimes it is best to hold off additions of CYA until the ammonia in the water can be dealt with. From Chem Geek:

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek View Post
    Yes, I think it's safest to not add CYA to the water until at least one starts holding some FC even if it drops over time. During that initial stage where chlorine very quickly (usually within one minute) combines with ammonia to form monochloramine there's not much sense adding more CYA to the water. It may not hurt since the monochloramine should prevent the bacteria from continuing to grow, but it doesn't help either. Once the ammonia is mostly all converted to monochloramine and you start to register some FC that lasts at least a little while, then adding CYA makes sense to have that FC not break down as quickly in sunlight.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    aussieta's Avatar
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    Re: CYA to Ammonia

    thank-you
    as i had not heard that approach before
    i wanted to be sure before i repeat it
    SWG inground peanut shaped eco-bright concrete pool
    50,000 litres 13,000 gallons
    Lincoln Salt Chlorinator, 25 gram cell Sand Filter with glass media
    Taylor K2006-C test kit, Taylor K-1766 salt test, Dolphin M500 pool cleaner
    are you taking care of your pool or is the poolshop taking care of you

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: CYA to Ammonia

    Quote Originally Posted by aussieta View Post
    thank-you
    as i had not heard that approach before
    i wanted to be sure before i repeat it
    This is how our methods change over time, by carefully paying attention to the little nuances of reported problems with pools. There is a lot of discussion behind the scenes by "staff" trying to figure how best to treat this subject.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    aussieta's Avatar
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    Re: CYA to Ammonia

    i am seeing a few posts lately where op has 0 fc and 0 cya
    but no-one is suggesting the BoDarville ammonia start to slam
    eg
    A start to my SLAM
    0 cya 0 fc
    am i missing something or is it best to wait until it appears a conventional slam is failing and then do the ten minute fc tests
    eg
    Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.
    sorry to be a pain, but i would have thought to test fc more frequently at the start with a 0 cya would be the new norm
    then add stabilizer
    SWG inground peanut shaped eco-bright concrete pool
    50,000 litres 13,000 gallons
    Lincoln Salt Chlorinator, 25 gram cell Sand Filter with glass media
    Taylor K2006-C test kit, Taylor K-1766 salt test, Dolphin M500 pool cleaner
    are you taking care of your pool or is the poolshop taking care of you

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    Re: CYA to Ammonia

    Most of the time when CYA disappears over the winter there isn't ammonia leftover and presumably bacteria took the CYA all the way to nitrogen gas. So the question becomes whether anytime one opens the pool to 0 ppm CYA and 0 ppm FC should they either test for ammonia (which means spending money on another kit) or add 10 ppm FC and check 10 minutes later to see if this results in 0 FC and a lot of CC (up to 10 ppm). It's probably not much effort to do this latter approach of checking in 10 minutes. If the FC is holding and not a lot of CC is formed, then continue with a normal SLAM but adding CYA first (or using Dichlor which adds both chlorine and CYA). So don't add CYA until one does this 10 minute test. That's my 2 cents worth.
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    aussieta's Avatar
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    Re: CYA to Ammonia

    thanks chem that makes more sense
    SWG inground peanut shaped eco-bright concrete pool
    50,000 litres 13,000 gallons
    Lincoln Salt Chlorinator, 25 gram cell Sand Filter with glass media
    Taylor K2006-C test kit, Taylor K-1766 salt test, Dolphin M500 pool cleaner
    are you taking care of your pool or is the poolshop taking care of you

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