OK, I'm at the breaking point here and want to give up. Bromine was 1.25 and I added 3 oz of bleach. Left it open in the sunlight for 30 minutes to air out and tested again....still 1.25. Closed it up. I can't imagine that the sunlight burned off that much. If so, that's not going to work for us. There WILL be times it will be used in the sunlight. If this were YOUR spa, would you just start over?
How much MPS do I use for initial shock?
- Thread starter momof3boys
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I meant to tell you we also chlorinated it before we even used the Swirl Away last time. I called the mfg. and they said to put chlorine in and run the jets. So, I did that and THEN I also used the Swirl Away. I just have a hard time believing this stupid bacteria is still holding on after all that.
Bromine does break down in sunlight, but more slowly than chlorine with no CYA though faster than chlorine with CYA. 3 fluid ounces of 8.25% bleach should add 2 ppm FC so 4.5 ppm Bromine to 1000 gallons. It should not get used up that fast, not even in sunlight.
What test kit are you using?
As I noted before, if it were my spa I'd use Ahh-Some to thoroughly clean it out and then dump the water, possibly doing the treatment more than once depending on how much junk comes out the first time (i.e. if there's a LOT then repeat). As for bacteria, if they are in biofilms then chlorine or bromine alone will NOT get rid of them unless there is significant superchlorination (e.g. 50-100 ppm) and even then it's better to use a product like Ahh-Some that specifically dislodges biofilm with its powerful surfactants. You could use the Ahh-Some AND you can add 100 ppm FC of bleach to the spa and run circulation and jets to be sure you kill off whatever is there, then dump that water and refill.
What test kit are you using?
As I noted before, if it were my spa I'd use Ahh-Some to thoroughly clean it out and then dump the water, possibly doing the treatment more than once depending on how much junk comes out the first time (i.e. if there's a LOT then repeat). As for bacteria, if they are in biofilms then chlorine or bromine alone will NOT get rid of them unless there is significant superchlorination (e.g. 50-100 ppm) and even then it's better to use a product like Ahh-Some that specifically dislodges biofilm with its powerful surfactants. You could use the Ahh-Some AND you can add 100 ppm FC of bleach to the spa and run circulation and jets to be sure you kill off whatever is there, then dump that water and refill.
I have the Taylor K-2106. I can't find Ahh-Some anywhere around here. There was no junk coming out with the Swirl Away.
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My husband did say to tell you that we asked Spa Guy if we should change out our filters and they said "no" because they are antibacterial filters. We hosed them really well, but they said you can't use cleaners on that kind and said they did not need to be replaced.
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My husband did say to tell you that we asked Spa Guy if we should change out our filters and they said "no" because they are antibacterial filters. We hosed them really well, but they said you can't use cleaners on that kind and said they did not need to be replaced.
You probably need to order the Ahh-Some online. It's not in most stores.
If you need to, you can remove the filters when the Ahh-Some is used. As noted in the Ahh-Some instructions they have you remove the filters and place them in the main area of the tub since they do expect you to clean them with the Ahh-Some.
So if you can't use cleaners on that kind of filter, did you take them out when Swirl-Away was used? I'm not sure if the dealer is right about not having the filters in when using Ahh-Some. I think they don't understand that Ahh-Some is just very powerful surfactants (think: soap on steroids), not some sort of acid or anything that should damage the filter. You can call Ahh-Some and ask them what they thing with regard to their product and the specific filters you have. I'd trust them more than your spa dealer.
If you need to, you can remove the filters when the Ahh-Some is used. As noted in the Ahh-Some instructions they have you remove the filters and place them in the main area of the tub since they do expect you to clean them with the Ahh-Some.
So if you can't use cleaners on that kind of filter, did you take them out when Swirl-Away was used? I'm not sure if the dealer is right about not having the filters in when using Ahh-Some. I think they don't understand that Ahh-Some is just very powerful surfactants (think: soap on steroids), not some sort of acid or anything that should damage the filter. You can call Ahh-Some and ask them what they thing with regard to their product and the specific filters you have. I'd trust them more than your spa dealer.
Yes, they had us take the filters out before using Swirl Away and said to hose them off.
We have made the decision to dump again. I ordered the Ahh-Some to be here tomorrow.
My husband has been talking to "Uncle Jerry" at the Ahh-Some place and he has given us a lot of advice. He said to stick the filters in the tub while cleaning too. He said to make a gallon jug of water with 2 oz of Ahh-Some and put 6-7 oz in weekly after refilling too. He said they have done tests with Swirl Away and it does NOTHING.
He also thinks we should go back to chlorine. ACK! I already bought the bromine test kit!
We have made the decision to dump again. I ordered the Ahh-Some to be here tomorrow.
My husband has been talking to "Uncle Jerry" at the Ahh-Some place and he has given us a lot of advice. He said to stick the filters in the tub while cleaning too. He said to make a gallon jug of water with 2 oz of Ahh-Some and put 6-7 oz in weekly after refilling too. He said they have done tests with Swirl Away and it does NOTHING.
He also thinks we should go back to chlorine. ACK! I already bought the bromine test kit!
I appreciate all of your advice to try to get this to work without having to start over again. I hope to get your advice when we start up again. Hopefully, we do start the Ahh-Some tomorrow night and get it drained and cleaned and it will work better. Otherwise, I might torch the thing!
OK, I don't know if you would rather me start a new post or just keep on here, but I want to be ready for when we start again. I have been reading about using chlorine in a spa.
What is best dichlor to get and place to get it? Anything specific to look for?
And how do you test for CYA? Is that a different test I need to get?
I am anxious to get this started as I am beyond frustrated.
What is best dichlor to get and place to get it? Anything specific to look for?
And how do you test for CYA? Is that a different test I need to get?
I am anxious to get this started as I am beyond frustrated.
Oh, shoot! Another question. Do you recommend the metal protect stuff like Spa Guy told us to use when first filling it?
So the thing about chlorine, and why I didn't have you go that route, is that it is more work, especially when you have an ozonator. The reason is that there aren't slow-dissolving tabs you can use as you do with bromine tabs. Trichlor pucks for pools dissolve too quickly in spas and are too acidic so it's too easy to mess up. It technically can be done, but it's hard and will likely void your spa's warranty if those wonderful guys at the spa store ever found out. So with the Dichor-then-bleach method you would have to add chlorine EVERY DAY because ozone reacts with chlorine so you'll have a higher chlorine demand in between soaks. The good news is that the ozonator will oxidize bather waste so reduce chlorine demand after each soak. It's the in between times (i.e. if you don't use the spa every day or two) that are a problem.
I can certainly help you with using chlorine, but if you plan to have periods of several days, especially more than 3 days, without adding chlorine, then that will be a problem. Maybe, just maybe if the ozonator is on long enough it will prevent the spa from going south, but that's a pretty big "if".
It's easy to go from chlorine to bromine at any time. Going from bromine to chlorine requires a water change. So maybe you can try chlorine and see if you can handle the maintenance and if not then switch to bromine. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
As for Dichlor chlorinating granules, just get the pure stuff which is usually around 99% Dichlor ("Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione Dilydrate") such as in brands like Leisure Time Spa 56 or SpaGuard Chlorinating Concentrate or Rendezvous Spa Specialties Sani-Spa Chlorinating Granules or any brand with the right ingredients and decent price.
Since you have a Taylor K-2106 you don't have the CYA test. You could probably go without just based on dosing, but if you want a test you can get just the CYA test from TFTestkits. I honestly don't think you'll need it, but it's up to you. It won't hurt.
I don't think you need the metal protect which is really scale protect so long as you keep decent control over the pH in your spa. I think that between lowering the TA and adding 50 ppm Borates you'll be able to manage. You can always buy it later if you find your pH tends to be too high and you worry about scaling. The general rule is to minimize what you add to your spa to keep things simple, easier to manage, and more affordable.
I can certainly help you with using chlorine, but if you plan to have periods of several days, especially more than 3 days, without adding chlorine, then that will be a problem. Maybe, just maybe if the ozonator is on long enough it will prevent the spa from going south, but that's a pretty big "if".
It's easy to go from chlorine to bromine at any time. Going from bromine to chlorine requires a water change. So maybe you can try chlorine and see if you can handle the maintenance and if not then switch to bromine. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
As for Dichlor chlorinating granules, just get the pure stuff which is usually around 99% Dichlor ("Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione Dilydrate") such as in brands like Leisure Time Spa 56 or SpaGuard Chlorinating Concentrate or Rendezvous Spa Specialties Sani-Spa Chlorinating Granules or any brand with the right ingredients and decent price.
Since you have a Taylor K-2106 you don't have the CYA test. You could probably go without just based on dosing, but if you want a test you can get just the CYA test from TFTestkits. I honestly don't think you'll need it, but it's up to you. It won't hurt.
I don't think you need the metal protect which is really scale protect so long as you keep decent control over the pH in your spa. I think that between lowering the TA and adding 50 ppm Borates you'll be able to manage. You can always buy it later if you find your pH tends to be too high and you worry about scaling. The general rule is to minimize what you add to your spa to keep things simple, easier to manage, and more affordable.
I talked to my husband and we will stick with bromine. We plan to use it a lot, but there will definitely be times we go a few days in between. I guess having a failure with both things has made us not really know what to do. We have all the stuff for bromine right now except for the boric acid.
When do we add the boric acid? I am going to order some from one of the links you gave me, but I don't know how quickly it will get here. What size boric acid would you suggest I order? Is that something that stores well to be used another time if we get too much?
We will probably be using the Ahh-Some and dumping tomorrow and then "Uncle Jerry" said we need to wipe down and clean the inside as it is some type of sugary substance that will be all over it. We will probably not refill until Thursday. I just want to make sure I have everything ready. We have the bromine tabs and bleach, but I will need to get more Broma-Start. I have ph/alk down, scale defense and all those things Spa Guy sold me, but I will use whatever you say I should use.
HAHA! "wonderful guys at the spa store". I definitely think they would stab me in the back if they found out something like that.
I don't know how to thank you enough for all your help!
When do we add the boric acid? I am going to order some from one of the links you gave me, but I don't know how quickly it will get here. What size boric acid would you suggest I order? Is that something that stores well to be used another time if we get too much?
We will probably be using the Ahh-Some and dumping tomorrow and then "Uncle Jerry" said we need to wipe down and clean the inside as it is some type of sugary substance that will be all over it. We will probably not refill until Thursday. I just want to make sure I have everything ready. We have the bromine tabs and bleach, but I will need to get more Broma-Start. I have ph/alk down, scale defense and all those things Spa Guy sold me, but I will use whatever you say I should use.
HAHA! "wonderful guys at the spa store". I definitely think they would stab me in the back if they found out something like that.
I don't know how to thank you enough for all your help!
You add the boric acid after you get your TA down lower to around 50 ppm (via acid addition and aeration at a low pH of 7.2 or so).
OK, I will get that ordered. Since the website was down, I couldn't get on here to see where you said how much I will need, so I didn't know how much to order! I was flipping out a bit! We got the Ahh-Some last night and ran it this morning. Green stuff was all around the edges. I hope that's a good sign. It is draining now. I'm the paranoid person going out and hosing down the sides periodically to make sure that grimy yuck doesn't bake on in the sun!
OK, I will get that ordered. Since the website was down, I couldn't get on here to see where you said how much I will need, so I didn't know how much to order! I was flipping out a bit! We got the Ahh-Some last night and ran it this morning. Green stuff was all around the edges. I hope that's a good sign. It is draining now. I'm the paranoid person going out and hosing down the sides periodically to make sure that grimy yuck doesn't bake on in the sun!
If you enter in 0 for Now and 50 for Goal for Borates and select boric acid in PoolMath, you get 38 ounces weight or 41 fluid ounces volume for 1000 gallons.
If you enter in 0 for Now and 50 for Goal for Borates and select boric acid in PoolMath, you get 38 ounces weight or 41 fluid ounces volume for 1000 gallons.
Thank you. I was finally able to get back into the post and find where you said I needed 59 oz (3.7 lb). I just wanted to make sure I ordered enough. I got it ordered yesterday. Working on balance ph now....ugh. Hoping to do Broma-Start, oxidizer and bromine tabs tonight.
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I didn't select "boric acid" in PoolMath. Thank you for pointing that out.
I know this is really working slowly, but hopefully you will get this! I tested my ph last night after refilling and getting up to temp. It looked to be 8+ (mine only goes to 8). I put in the recommended amount of ph/alk down. This morning, it was still at 8. I put the recommended ph/alk down in again. I just tested it over 9 hours later. It is STILL at 8. The alk is 60. CH is 110. I have not started bromine yet as I cannot get the ph down. Any suggestions? My boric acid is on the way, but I know you said to get ph stable before even using that. I'm at a loss.
Try testing 10 minutes after adding the acid with circulation running. That will tell you if the acid addition is working and it's just rising in pH quickly over hours.
I finally got the pH down to 7.6 after adding pH/alk down three times. I tested the pH again last night when I was testing the bromine and it had stayed at 7.6 for a couple hours. I will have to see how it did overnight. Hopefully, that part is behind me! I am still waiting for my boric acid to arrive. Hopefully soon! I feel like I am getting the hang of this, but I'm still frustrated with the bromine.
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