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Thread: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

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    How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    Hello TFP'ers! I live in a wet area i.e. clay soil and high water table. Luckily, my pool installer years ago put in a dead man to drain off excess water from around and under the pool. Unluckily, he did not tell me how to use it. So I just installed a new liner want it to last so now I am going to install a pump on the dead man. I am looking at a Hayward Power Flo Matrix 1hp pump. I know this is normally used for smaller, aboveground pools but it will only get intermittent use and will only have to pull water in 1 direction (versus regular pump that has to drive a circular system). Is this enough pump for the job? I figured better to spend my money on a Hayward than a no-name brand and try to save on smaller pump - but only if it will do the job and last. Thanks for any thoughts on this as I need to buy a pump asap.
    ____________________________________________________________ _____________________

    Vinyl free form IG 30,000 gallon pool
    Hayward S270T Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter
    AO Smith 1081 Centurion Pool Pump
    Sliding Board
    TF50 Test Kit and Taylor Ph test kit
    Aquabot Tempo

    Location: Lewes, DE

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    My assumption is you are talking about a dedicated drain from around the outside of the pool? Not replacing your existing pool pump?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    I think you're talking about an underground WellPoint for removing water from under the pool in water table situations...my initial thought is that's a lot of pump. Also, a pool pump wants to remain primed, while there are some pumps that tolerate dry start better than others. I'm not sure about using a pool pump for this, but someone will come along who does know the best pump for this application.
    17.4k gallon IG pool with attached spa (spa itself is 730gal), Super Blue Diamondbrite plaster, Circupool SI-45+ SWG, BH/Hayward Cartridge Filter, 2hp 2speed Hayward Super II pump, , Jandy Valves, Waterway Skimmers, Rheem 400k Heater, Polaris 360 cleaner, built 2000+-, replastered June 2015, TF-100 kit---Here's my pool test reading history

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    Yessir and I have learned from reading in the last hour that I need an in-ground pool pump because it will sit above the level of the water it is pulling out. What do you recommend? Also should I have it hard wired onto dead man - that seems much easier than intermittently pulling it out of the shed - especially when we have a hurricane or nor'easter...
    ____________________________________________________________ _____________________

    Vinyl free form IG 30,000 gallon pool
    Hayward S270T Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter
    AO Smith 1081 Centurion Pool Pump
    Sliding Board
    TF50 Test Kit and Taylor Ph test kit
    Aquabot Tempo

    Location: Lewes, DE

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    My liner installer had a Hayward Super Pump on it - that looked like overkill to me but what do I know? That's why I am here….
    ____________________________________________________________ _____________________

    Vinyl free form IG 30,000 gallon pool
    Hayward S270T Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter
    AO Smith 1081 Centurion Pool Pump
    Sliding Board
    TF50 Test Kit and Taylor Ph test kit
    Aquabot Tempo

    Location: Lewes, DE

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    How large is the pipe on your well point? I've seen some well points that are large enough to insert a submersible pump in the pipe itself that has a float and turns on/off as necessary.
    17.4k gallon IG pool with attached spa (spa itself is 730gal), Super Blue Diamondbrite plaster, Circupool SI-45+ SWG, BH/Hayward Cartridge Filter, 2hp 2speed Hayward Super II pump, , Jandy Valves, Waterway Skimmers, Rheem 400k Heater, Polaris 360 cleaner, built 2000+-, replastered June 2015, TF-100 kit---Here's my pool test reading history

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    No way unless it is the world's smallest pump - the pipe is approximately 2" wide.
    ____________________________________________________________ _____________________

    Vinyl free form IG 30,000 gallon pool
    Hayward S270T Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter
    AO Smith 1081 Centurion Pool Pump
    Sliding Board
    TF50 Test Kit and Taylor Ph test kit
    Aquabot Tempo

    Location: Lewes, DE

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    I think we need more info as to how this "dead man" works. I have never heard a wellpoint called that but it sounds like that's what you are describing.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    This is s description I got from a pool builders' forum on DIY Home Improvement Information | DoItYourself.com : "Here is something else that most people in the business outside of fla. don't know. You HAVE to run a pump 24hrs a day on the hole when you build the pool just to be able to build it. This pump is plumbed into what we call a deadman line. This is a pipe in the gravel bed under your pool. The pump pumps ground water out and runs until there is enough water in the pool not to have to worry anymore then it is cut and capped off. All pools there now call for a in ground line under the pool in a gravel bed and then it comes up and out of the ground with a cap on it by the deep end. So a pump can but on it anytime the pool has to be worked on."

    I live within a few miles of the beach and we have clay soil and a very high water table here, so these are often put on pools here during construction. My liner installer had his pump hooked up to it and ran a 100 ft hose out into the woods and ran it to drain the bottom of the pool and the ground water that was coming up. I will attach some photos of his set-up. Trying to learn if people have used these kinds of setups in the past and how they worked to protect your liner i.e. is this really necessary or was my liner installer just trying to sell me another pump? I am happy to spend the money if it is necessary but trust you all the most.

    IMG_2487.jpg

    IMG_2488.jpg
    ____________________________________________________________ _____________________

    Vinyl free form IG 30,000 gallon pool
    Hayward S270T Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter
    AO Smith 1081 Centurion Pool Pump
    Sliding Board
    TF50 Test Kit and Taylor Ph test kit
    Aquabot Tempo

    Location: Lewes, DE

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    Bogus, Bogus, Bogus. That DIY article is from a know-it-all who ASSUMES everyone's soil is just like what he is accustomed to.

    I see nothing in your pics to indicate this pipe. All your pics show is the intake for the pump and the return to the pool. Where is this deadman pipe? Do you know that you have a gravel bed? Did a professional pool builder install this?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    I'm on high and dry ground in Florida, but when getting quotes in Wisconsin for a pool the builder said it would have been needed there as our back yard was on really low ground and a high water table. Up there though it was just called a french drain just like the one my basement had to the sump.

    As long as it can prime though I wouldn't think it should matter how large the pump is, or even that it be a pool pump. You hopefully will rarely need to be draining your pool anyway and I can't see it making much of a difference if you have to wait just a little longer for a smaller pump to catch up. When our never built pool was quoted though they had said they would be placing an 8" vertical pipe and a small pump could just be dropped to the bottom.

    Well, all that assumes duraleigh isn't correct and that's your pool pump
    Scott
    15,000 Gallons vinyl in-ground screen enclosed, Hayward Eco-star SP3400VSP, Hayward Aqua Logic PL-Plus, Hayward T-15 Salt Cell, Hayward S244T Sand Filter, Polaris 380 with booster pump, Hayward heat pump HP50HA. K-2006 kit.

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    I wasn't trying to represent the FLA person's skill level. Just providing the asked-for explanation of a dead man. The pipe coming out of the ground is the dead man and there is no water return - that's the idea - to get the groundwater up and away. Yes, I have a gravel bed and yes the pool was professionally installed. The pump setup you see was temporarily in place while the new liner was being installed. Thanks for your thoughts and support.
    ____________________________________________________________ _____________________

    Vinyl free form IG 30,000 gallon pool
    Hayward S270T Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter
    AO Smith 1081 Centurion Pool Pump
    Sliding Board
    TF50 Test Kit and Taylor Ph test kit
    Aquabot Tempo

    Location: Lewes, DE

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    How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Bogus, Bogus, Bogus. That DIY article is from a know-it-all who ASSUMES everyone's soil is just like what he is accustomed to.

    I see nothing in your pics to indicate this pipe. All your pics show is the intake for the pump and the return to the pool. Where is this deadman pipe? Do you know that you have a gravel bed? Did a professional pool builder install this?
    I'm pretty sure that pic is actually a pump attached to the WellPoint, not his normal pool suction/return lines.

    For what it's worth, I think the gear in the pic is overkill, and you'll need to add water to prime it every time you use this. I think something cheaper could do the job, maybe something like this:

    Portable Utility Pump - Harbor Freight
    17.4k gallon IG pool with attached spa (spa itself is 730gal), Super Blue Diamondbrite plaster, Circupool SI-45+ SWG, BH/Hayward Cartridge Filter, 2hp 2speed Hayward Super II pump, , Jandy Valves, Waterway Skimmers, Rheem 400k Heater, Polaris 360 cleaner, built 2000+-, replastered June 2015, TF-100 kit---Here's my pool test reading history

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    Re: How to Select the Correct Dead Man Pump for IG Vinyl Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by gilbee View Post
    I'm pretty sure that pic is actually a pump attached to the WellPoint, not his normal pool suction/return lines.

    For what it's worth, I think the gear in the pic is overkill, and you'll need to add water to prime it every time you use this. I think something cheaper could do the job, maybe something like this:

    Portable Utility Pump - Harbor Freight
    Thank you, thank you, thank you! I ordered this exact pump from HF, used a 20% off coupon and bought the 2 year warranty with the money saved (I am not a big warranty girl, but the brushing issues made it a smart move). I have everything else I need already. It is set to arrive Tuesday and I can't wait to set it up - as we are having torrential rains here in DE. I will let you all know how it works but I am pleased to know that this small investment will likely add years to my pool's life. And if you are building a vinyl pool in a high-water table area, please talk to your PI about adding gravel and lines to a deadman/well point underneath.
    ____________________________________________________________ _____________________

    Vinyl free form IG 30,000 gallon pool
    Hayward S270T Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter
    AO Smith 1081 Centurion Pool Pump
    Sliding Board
    TF50 Test Kit and Taylor Ph test kit
    Aquabot Tempo

    Location: Lewes, DE

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