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Thread: green tint after SLAM

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    green tint after SLAM

    So after a week at shock level, I have finished the SLAM. OCLT is less than one, CC is 0.5 and water is clear. Thanks to all of you who helped me get started and work through my first SLAM. It is great to see the main drain covers nice and clear again!

    Latest testing (TF100 test kit)

    pH 7.5
    FC 19
    CC 0.5
    CH 250
    TA 210
    CYA 40

    I am not sure about the accuracy of the pH given the FC level.
    I understand the FC is high, and I assume I will just let it come down to a target of 5 on its own over time.
    I will use PoolMath to figure out how much MA to add to bring the pH down to 7.0 to 7.2 then aerate to raise pH.

    My question is that the water, although really clear again, has a green tint to it. Any ideas on causes and resolution?

    Before the SLAM, the pool store said phosphates were very high at 1500, but I have not messed with that. I am thinking maybe I can now, but am not too concerned right now, although I wonder if that would cause green. Could it be metal like copper? Could the vinyl liner be discolored from the severe algae bloom? Or from the super high FC levels (35 to 40) I hit when I thought my CYA was 65 or 70 early in the SLAM?

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    30,000 gal IG 20x40 8ft deep end vinyl liner in NE Ohio DOB Sept 2012
    Hayward 4820 DE filter, Hayward SP2610x15 1.5HP single speed pump
    Hayward H400FDN natural gas heater, Frog min'l/Cl2 system (not in use)
    autocover, Dolphin DX4 cleaner, well water, TF100 test kit

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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    Especially with your own TF-100, there is no reason for you to go to the Pool Store. Why are you still doing it?

    So your phosphates are high at 1500? Who cares? My advice is that you stay out of the pool store and stop listening to their advice.

    Now, if your water is a VERY clear green and not murky, it is likely because of high iron content in your water. How long has it had the green tint? Have you tested for iron?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    I have not gone to the pool store for advice (only supplies or testing to confirm my results) since I started working with you guys and following the TFPC methods. That phosphate test was from before I connected with TFPC and I did not do anything about the phosphates after getting advice here. I only mentioned it in case it could cause the green color.

    The water is indeed very clear green not at all murky or cloudy. It has only been this way since the big algae bloom and the SLAM. It has always been blue until the last week or so.

    I have not tested for iron.
    30,000 gal IG 20x40 8ft deep end vinyl liner in NE Ohio DOB Sept 2012
    Hayward 4820 DE filter, Hayward SP2610x15 1.5HP single speed pump
    Hayward H400FDN natural gas heater, Frog min'l/Cl2 system (not in use)
    autocover, Dolphin DX4 cleaner, well water, TF100 test kit

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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    So not having the means to test for iron, I went to the evil pool store last night. I spoke to them about the clear green water without sharing duraleigh's iron thoughts. They also said it could be metals as duraleigh suggested. They tested and found 0.1 iron and 0.2 copper. They said that essentially "any" detectable metals could discolor the water. They suggested adding a sequestrating agent (Sequa Sol) to take care of the metals.

    I asked them to test phosphates just to see what they would say, and they said they were at 300 and nothing to worry about. I mentioned that they had previously tested them at 1500 and had told me I needed to treat for them. The lady asked if I had algae at the time of the previous test, and I said that indeed it was during an algae bloom. She said that algae interferes with the phosphate test, and that they should not have tested it then and apologized. She asked if I had purchased any phosphate chemicals, and I told her I had. She asked if I had added them yet, and I told her I had not. She told me to bring them back, and they would refund them.

    Honestly, while I have run into some bad advice at the pool store, I have also found some of the people to be pretty good. Heck, before I found this forum, they told me to lay off the granular and switch to liquid for shocking because the granular was driving up my CYA and impeding the shock. I think like any other retail operation, especially ones dispensing "advice," the key is to find a store and find the people in it that you can trust. Of course, I think the advice and information here is quite good. And I will continue to follow the TFPC methods. But I also think I can find good support at the store as long as I am careful about who I speak with. And when I want to test something beyond the capabilities of my test kit, they are an easily accessible resource. And believe it or not, their 12% liquid chlorine is more cost-effective than the cheap bleach from other places.

    Anyway, does the advice regarding the metals sound right to you guys?
    30,000 gal IG 20x40 8ft deep end vinyl liner in NE Ohio DOB Sept 2012
    Hayward 4820 DE filter, Hayward SP2610x15 1.5HP single speed pump
    Hayward H400FDN natural gas heater, Frog min'l/Cl2 system (not in use)
    autocover, Dolphin DX4 cleaner, well water, TF100 test kit

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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    Yes, it sounds correct.

    Let your FC come down to normal-for-your-cya (see chlorine:FC chart in my signature.)

    Don't read or adjust your ph until FC is normal -- doesn't read right over 10.

    Purchase one of the two recommended hedp sequestrant agents -- jack's Magic or Pro Team Metal Magic. Follow instructions exactly re FC and PH on whichever botte you buy. Use a start up dose, quart per 10k. Note that instruction on MM suggest not shocking for up to a week after. Also note that sequestrants wear off over time so you will need to experiment with maintenance dosing.

    Once you've done this keep your ph onthe lower side to reduce staining. Also be vigilant in maintaining min FC so you don have to slam again, as slamming oxidizes metals

    Hope that helps. Let us know if you have any use questions, and post a pic for good measure
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    SW's post should get you going. FYI - Here's a couple more links about metals in water that confirm those processes/methods to eliminate metals. Hope it all works for you. Let us know if you still have questions okay.
    Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains
    Green water and low ph
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    Thanks for the replies, swampwoman and Texas. I was planning to let the FC come down to a target of 5 based on that chart. Is there anything to do other than wait? I have an autocover, so the pool is normally closed up pretty well. I thought I would leave it open a few days to let the sun help lower the FC.

    I will wait to work on the TA/pH until the FC is below 10.

    I will also be sure to follow the directions for the sequestering agent.

    Trust me, I will be very careful to maintain the FC. I have left the pool untouched for several days in the past without issue, but I guess I was just lucky. We had a big rain that washed a bunch of junk into the pool, and that was followed by a cold rainy week where I did not touch it. The end result was a cloudy green mess that took an 8 day slam to clear up. Believe me, I don't want to do that again! Daily FC checks will definitely be the routine from now on.
    30,000 gal IG 20x40 8ft deep end vinyl liner in NE Ohio DOB Sept 2012
    Hayward 4820 DE filter, Hayward SP2610x15 1.5HP single speed pump
    Hayward H400FDN natural gas heater, Frog min'l/Cl2 system (not in use)
    autocover, Dolphin DX4 cleaner, well water, TF100 test kit

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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    SW - you mentioned Jack's. I am sure you know they have several products. Looking through them, I am thinking the "Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff" is the right thing? I notice it has the same active ingredient (HEDP) as the Metal Magic also.
    30,000 gal IG 20x40 8ft deep end vinyl liner in NE Ohio DOB Sept 2012
    Hayward 4820 DE filter, Hayward SP2610x15 1.5HP single speed pump
    Hayward H400FDN natural gas heater, Frog min'l/Cl2 system (not in use)
    autocover, Dolphin DX4 cleaner, well water, TF100 test kit

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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    I've used both jacks pink, which is better for iron, and blue, which didn't quite seem as effective. I actually now use Metal Magic and really like it...likely because it works best with ph above 7.5 so I don't have to handle MA as much to use it

    You have both iron and copper so I'm truly not sure which is best, but suspect any will clear the tint as your level is comparatively low, and I suspect its from the frog (or are you on we'll water?) BTW, pull that frog system out pronto if you avent already.

    However, if you find you need more than the start up dose, the other thing I like about Metal Magic is that by performing the "sponge test" (I'll post a link) and using higher ratios, in my case it ALSO nails any staining on steps and vinyl. Ymmv, but here's a link:http://www.proteampoolcare.com/image...SpongeTest.pdf

    BTW, over the last three years, ive actually spoken to techs at both companies and they're both great. My current preference doesn't reflect superiority...just my own laziness and aversion to the Ascorbic acid treatment.

    Jacks has some pretty elaborate stain testing products, but it can get pricy quick and you already have reason to suspect both iron and copper, and i suspect, know the source..,SO with splash out, a season of sequestering will probably correct without any elaborate measures beyond sequestering.

    If any of the metal is coming from your fill water, that's a different story..
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    Thanks, SW. I think in this case the metal, at least the copper, came from low pH eating my heater. Before I started getting good advice from TFPC, I had added a bunch of granular chlorine (dichlor) trying to kill an algae bloom, and it drove the pH way down (6.5) and the CYA sky high (65). That is all corrected now, but I suspect that is where some of this came from. I am on well water. When I bought the house, it had an iron filter and a broken softener. When I replaced the softener, the same guys that put in the original iron filter tested the well water and said I did not need an iron filter any more. However, when I am filling, I have learned not to let the hose sit close to the bottom or the steps or it causes a brownish/reddish stain which sure seems like it would be iron. Once I get this straightened out, I will get on a maintenance schedule with a sequestering agent. I found a store locally that handles the Jack's products.

    Thanks again
    30,000 gal IG 20x40 8ft deep end vinyl liner in NE Ohio DOB Sept 2012
    Hayward 4820 DE filter, Hayward SP2610x15 1.5HP single speed pump
    Hayward H400FDN natural gas heater, Frog min'l/Cl2 system (not in use)
    autocover, Dolphin DX4 cleaner, well water, TF100 test kit

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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    Sorry to hear about the heater core but that does make a certain amount of sense.

    Okay, well, your iron readings, if accurate from pool store, are very low, but since you know you've had some history and you're on well, the other thing you can do is to prefilter the water going in -- I am posting links to an 8,000 gallon capacity one I use (yes, even though my water is softened I still get about .5 ppm so I still pre-filter and also to the Slime Bag -- each of these might help catch iron on its way in.

    Here are the links:
    -- 8k capacity, so you'll get a few months of fills: Amazon.com : Pre Fresh Garden Hose End Water Filter all purpose, pool, spa, hot tub, pets, car wash : Garden Hose Parts : Patio, Lawn Garden

    -- Amazon.com : Slime Bag 9 Garden
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    Quote Originally Posted by bkfamily1 View Post
    Thanks, SW. I think in this case the metal, at least the copper, came from low pH eating my heater. Before I started getting good advice from TFPC, I had added a bunch of granular chlorine (dichlor) trying to kill an algae bloom, and it drove the pH way down (6.5) and the CYA sky high (65). That is all corrected now, but I suspect that is where some of this came from. I am on well water. When I bought the house, it had an iron filter and a broken softener. When I replaced the softener, the same guys that put in the original iron filter tested the well water and said I did not need an iron filter any more. However, when I am filling, I have learned not to let the hose sit close to the bottom or the steps or it causes a brownish/reddish stain which sure seems like it would be iron. Once I get this straightened out, I will get on a maintenance schedule with a sequestering agent. I found a store locally that handles the Jack's products.

    Thanks again
    Filling with well water is problematic. There is every likliehood that is why your pool is clear green.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    If the well water is the problem why have I never had the green color before even though I have been using well water all along?
    30,000 gal IG 20x40 8ft deep end vinyl liner in NE Ohio DOB Sept 2012
    Hayward 4820 DE filter, Hayward SP2610x15 1.5HP single speed pump
    Hayward H400FDN natural gas heater, Frog min'l/Cl2 system (not in use)
    autocover, Dolphin DX4 cleaner, well water, TF100 test kit

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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    Quote Originally Posted by bkfamily1 View Post
    If the well water is the problem why have I never had the green color before even though I have been using well water all along?
    I can't answer that. I can say there is a high probability that a clear green pool is almost always a result of iron precipitate caused by high levels of chlorine. Are you thinking it is something else? What would that be?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    Bk, between the well water and frog...and/or any extra metals from the heater core if stripped, it could simply be that together the trace amounts added up to enough to tint the water when oxidized from your slam.

    Metals are sorta like cya in that only splash out and water change actually remove them...so over time, the concentration can build up. That why someone can use algaecides with copper for a few years with no trouble then suddenly have a season where everyone's hair turns green

    Either way/whichever the source, people on well should usually consider a startup dose of sequestrant each season with periodic top up.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: green tint after SLAM

    Dureleigh, I think that when I ran the pH way low by accident by adding tons of granular that I may have eaten a bit of my heater or other things. Or maybe the Frog mineral system is adding metals.

    I am not saying the well water is not contributing. It just seems like it went from perfect blue to green very quickly and something else has also happened.

    SW - makes sense

    I am going to remove the Frog, start using the filter SW suggested for fill water, and start a regular maintenance dose of sequestrant. Oh yeah - and keep my chemistry under better control the TFPC way.
    30,000 gal IG 20x40 8ft deep end vinyl liner in NE Ohio DOB Sept 2012
    Hayward 4820 DE filter, Hayward SP2610x15 1.5HP single speed pump
    Hayward H400FDN natural gas heater, Frog min'l/Cl2 system (not in use)
    autocover, Dolphin DX4 cleaner, well water, TF100 test kit

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