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Thread: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

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    suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    OK so I thought I had this pool thing down but now I am perplexed....
    See below parameters.
    Water test on June 13th (at pool store)
    FC 3 TC 3.31 ph 8 CH 238 Alk 63 CYA 60 Copper 0.1 Iron 0.1 THese numbers have been pretty consistent with all the water tests I've done
    Pretty good over all. Been adding Muriatic Acid regularly, adjusting SWG.
    Only thing that seemed a little low was CH- I used pool calculator and to get up to around 300 (goal 250-350) said to add 19 pounds of CH
    I only added 5.
    So, I test my water today (at a different pool store)
    FC 1.61 TC 1.61 ph 8.4 CH 417 Alk 73 CYA 63 Copper 2.9 Iron 1.6
    Wait, WHAT!!!?? CH 417 Copper 2.9 Iron 1.6
    I know what you're thinking- pool store made a mistake, scam, etc. THat was my first thought.
    Problem is, I tested it against the home test - all the things that I can test - they are right
    PH, chlorine, CH, CYA- all spot on . SO can they be right about the copper too???
    SO now I 'm heading to a different store to check copper...

    THe only things that were done between these 2 readings were 5 pounds of CH , and we had heavy rains.
    Any ideas????
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    Bad testing. That would be a ridiculously high copper and iron level.

    What test kit do YOU have? Stop going to pool stores for their worthless testing.

    EDIT: Although, you have a Nature 2 and if you did not remove the metal portion as TFP recommends .... who know how high your copper level is.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    Are you changing the Nature2 cartridge regularly? The "minerals" Nature2 adds to your pool is, copper....

    Is your pool gunite or vinyl?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    I'm testing with the home test that trouble-free pool recommends I forget the name of it but it's the one on the website. As per trouble free pools recommendations I don't even use the mineral cartridge

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't trust the pool store either sometimes I just get it checked to check against my readings but how else can I check copper and iron if not at the pool store?
    And I don't have groundwater by the way since I know that something that can cause copper to go up. I have a granite pool. The calcium hardness perplexes me also. That I did confirm with the home test kit. Anyway I'm on my way to another pool store just to get the copper checked again.
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    I'm going to agree with Jason and say testing error on their part. Home copper test kits are available, but in your situation with a new pool and little/no Nature2 usage I would say the possibility of copper is low.

    TFTestkits.net
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    Yes that is correct there is no mineral cartridge in my nature to at all. Is there a possibility that the calcium hardness could've been contaminated with something? I know that's reaching but I really have no other explanation. Well I guess I won't get too crazy until I see what the other stores testing says. I will keep you posted should have an answer in about a half an hour. Though even if they show no copper it still doesn't explain why my calcium hardness went up so high. I know you might say just that I calculated wrong but you have no idea how anal retentive I am I triple checked my Calculations
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    To be blunt .... we do not care what the 3rd pool store says

    Test the water yourself.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    So even if two different pool stores suggest that I have an obscenely high-level of copper you are suggesting I should ignore it?
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim H View Post
    So even if two different pool stores suggest that I have an obscenely high-level of copper you are suggesting I should ignore it?
    if your testing shows it OK, then yes. I have witnessed myself how wrong they can be.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    A copper level above 0.3 can cause staining ... a level of 3.0 seems practically impossible to happen by accident.

    Have you ever had metal staining? Have you been adding metals? If not, then don't worry about it.

    Just like the 2 CH numbers are so different. A 3rd store is going to be different again. Just test your own water with the good test kit.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    Okay lesson learned from a newbie. I shouldn't have even bothered posting until I got the second reading it is still down at zero. I know I can't trust this pool store reading either but it makes more sense that my Copper would be at zero instead of at three. I do have two residual questions though. My hardness is around 425 based on my home test. The water is not cloudy though is there any danger with this? Can I just leave it alone? Also i've had to pool stores and one Internet blog suggest that a water heater can raise copper overtime. Is this something I need to worry about in the future?
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    People have CH much higher than that, just keep you pH in line and you should be good. The heater is the same thing, pH way out of whack can erode the copper pipes. So, the answer is good pH control.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    I can't tell you how much you guys rock you guys are like my pool therapists when I start freaking out about things. I recommended all of my friends who have pools to this website.
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim H View Post
    I can't tell you how much you guys rock you guys are like my pool therapists when I start freaking out about things. I recommended all of my friends who have pools to this website.
    We are less expensive than therapists. If we have added value, Become a Supporter. It helps keep the lights on.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: suddenly very high copper and calcium hardness?!!

    Done!
    (I'm assuming my cool supporter plaque isn't instantaneous.)
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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