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Thread: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

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    Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Hello. I am in the process of pool construction and need to connect the equipment. (pump, filter, etc) However, I'm confused over the lines that the pool contractor ran from the pool and spa to the equipment. I'm sure that this is due to my ignorance, but I'm trying to figure out how best to connect the plumbing.

    There are a total of 8 lines from the pool and spa as follows:

    1.) Pool Main drain
    2.) Skimmer
    3.) Skimmer
    4.) Vac Line
    5.) Spa Main drain
    6.) Pool Return
    7.) Spa Air Flow
    8.) Spa Jet

    I'm uncertain about the use of two of these lines - Vac Line and Spa Air flow. I suspect that the spa air flow will bring air from a pipe near the spa and add this air to the spa jet return lines. Is this correct?

    If so, how will these lines be connected? Should there be 3 port valve to connect air flow and jet return pipes? Also, I was planning to place a check valve on the return side of the pump to prevent back flow.

    Secondly, where would the vac line be connected to the pool? There are connections directly beneath each of the two Skimmers in the pool. I suspect that the vac line may be connected here to allow the connection of vacuum device. If so, I would then connect the vac line to the input side of the pump but use a 3 way port to connect the main drain and skimmer lines as well.


    Does this sound correct? Thanks in advance for your advice.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    I am confused are you doing the plumbing or trying to second guess what the builder is doing?

    You are correct on the Spa Air Flow, they may be installing a blower on that line to push air in. Although a good spa plumbing design would not need the blower and would use a venturi to suck the air in.

    Is the spa elevated above the pool? If not, you should not need any check valves.

    The Vac Line usually just looks like a normal return underwater near the middle of the pool where you would hook up a suction cleaner.

    There may be openings below each of the skimmers to hook up an equalizer line.

    Again, I am confused who is doing what with your build....
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    I'm am building a new pool, but I hired a contractor to excavate and plumb the pool. I'm responsible for the equipment and I'm attempting to connect the plumbing to the pump and filter myself. (this is why I'm not certain of the intended use of each plumbing pipe line)

    The spa is not elevated above the pool. The pool and spa are at the same height and the spa has a spill way to spill over into the pool. Also, there is an open pipe near the spa which I assume is to allow air into the system. However, I'm confused as to how to connect the line which is labeled "spa air flow". This is one of the lines which are run from the pool to the equipment location.

    What do you mean by venturi?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Google "venturi"

    Kind of sounds like you got in over your head here a bit
    I think this is going to require a lot of pictures, and some drawings on what you want to accomplish.
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Can you tell me if the spa air flow should connect to the spa jet return?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    I think so, but I am not a pool plumber.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Sometimes the air goes to holes in the floor or seats to create bubbles. Sometimes it's plumbed into venturi nozzles at the spa returns. This all needs to be decided and designed before construction.

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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    Sometimes the air goes to holes in the floor or seats to create bubbles. Sometimes it's plumbed into venturi nozzles at the spa returns.
    How can I determine where the line goes?

    My spa has an air line which comes above the coping at the spa. Then, I have the line at the equipment labeled "spa air flow".

    There are three lines related to the spa:

    1.) Spa main drain
    2.) Spa Air Flow
    3.) Spa Jet

    How can I determine what the intended use of the 'Spa air flow' line is?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    There should have been a plumbing drawing. And you could have taken pictures as the plumbing went in to see what is what.

    No way we can guess how yours was designed and plumbed.
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Quote Originally Posted by mp257784 View Post
    How can I determine what the intended use of the 'Spa air flow' line is?
    It is simply an air intake line. It does not go anywhere. It remains open so that air can be drawn into the spa jets. You can put an air line vent cap on it so that no critters can crawl into it. However, you may need to add a blower if the plumber did not put in a Hartford loop at the spa.
    Mark
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    It is simply an air intake line. It does not go anywhere. It remains open so that air can be drawn into the spa jets. You can put an air line vent cap on it so that no critters can crawl into it. However, you may need to add a blower if the plumber did not put in a Hartford loop at the spa.

    Thank you. This is extremely helpful. I capped off the line at the pool and will put a vent cap on before finishing the pool.

    It is my understanding that this air line and the spa jets are connected at the spa because when it was built there were two "loops" of PVC which encircled the spa. If I understand you correctly I can either:


    1.) Attach a blower to force air in this line which will be combined at the spa and exit the spa jets.

    or

    2.) Attach this line to the spa return via a Jandy 3 way valve.


    Does this sound correct to you?

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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    #2 is incorrect. This air line is already connected to the spa returns at the Venturi jets (determined from you description above). The air line is simply an intake for air, whether or not it is supplied by a blower.

    As JBizzle mentioned, you do not need a blower since in your description above, you were plumbed with a hartford loop.
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    #1 is optional and #2 is not correct. The spa and pool suction and return water lines are connected via a 3-way valves but the air lines are not.

    You technically do not need to connect the air line at the pad to anything. It is just there to allow air into the line. The other end of the air line is connected to the venturi tee at the spa and the other port of the venturi tee is already connected to the spa water return or at least it should be. No additional connections should be required.

    However, what I mentioned above is that IF a Hartford loop was not installed at the spa and IF the air line is too long, you may need to attach a blower to that air line at the pad. The blower is ONLY there to push the water out of the pipe so air can flow. But if designed properly, this is not necessary because the venturi's create a suction on the air line which will clear out the water. But this is not always the case. Sometimes a blower is necessary to help clear the line.

    The air line at the coping is probably for other tees and allows you to adjust the air flow or to shut it off. This usually has a twist plug of some sort for adjusting the air.
    Mark
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post

    However, what I mentioned above is that IF a Hartford loop was not installed at the spa and IF the air line is too long, you may need to attach a blower to that air line at the pad. The blower is ONLY there to push the water out of the pipe so air can flow. But if designed properly, this is not necessary because the venturi's create a suction on the air line which will clear out the water. But this is not always the case. Sometimes a blower is necessary to help clear the line.

    The air line at the coping is probably for other tees and allows you to adjust the air flow or to shut it off. This usually has a twist plug of some sort for adjusting the air.
    Since I'm not seeing the Venturi effect, I temporarily attached a blower at the pad (with the rest of the equipment) and I got air through to the spa. Although I do have the hartford loop, I'm still not seeing any air at the spa without the blower. I'm thinking that the spa line may be too long because it is approximately 100 ft away.

    In situations like this, is it common to attach a blower?


    Thanks, in advance.
    45000 Gallons, Inground, pebble, Pentair Triton II Sand Filter, Pentair Intelliflow variable speed pump, Pool install in 2015, 10 foot diameter spa with spillway to pool

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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Although I do have the hartford loop
    How do you know that?

    In situations like this, is it common to attach a blower?
    Yes, you will probably need a blower.
    Mark
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    How do you know that?

    During construction I saw two "loops" of PVC pipe around the spa. (installed by the contractor prior to pouring the shell)
    45000 Gallons, Inground, pebble, Pentair Triton II Sand Filter, Pentair Intelliflow variable speed pump, Pool install in 2015, 10 foot diameter spa with spillway to pool

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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    The loops that go around the spa in a horizontal direction, are not a Hartford loop. Those are just the air and water lines feeding the spa jets.

    The Hartford loop connects only to the air line and it is vertical loop that goes to the top of the spa wall and back down again.


    Mark
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Now I'm more confused than ever. The image shows a blower attached to the hartford loop. I thought the whole point of the loop was to allow air into the system without the need for a blower.

    Is this not the case?
    45000 Gallons, Inground, pebble, Pentair Triton II Sand Filter, Pentair Intelliflow variable speed pump, Pool install in 2015, 10 foot diameter spa with spillway to pool

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    The blower may or may not be necessary even with a Hartford loop. It depends on the rest of the design. However it makes it more likely that you won't need it. The point of the picture is to show you what a Hartford loop is. What you were describing is not a Hartford loop.
    Mark
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    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Plumbing new in ground pool - plumbing spa question

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    However it makes it more likely that you won't need it.

    If I don't need it, how do I get the air into the system?
    45000 Gallons, Inground, pebble, Pentair Triton II Sand Filter, Pentair Intelliflow variable speed pump, Pool install in 2015, 10 foot diameter spa with spillway to pool

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