Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: First Time Home Buyer... On Hard Mode - 12k Gallon IG Pool

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    3

    First Time Home Buyer... On Hard Mode - 12k Gallon IG Pool

    Hi Everyone,

    I have an IG pool about 12k gallons and the rest I've added to my sig per the site's recommendations. I had a "professional" come over and setup the pool for the season, this was after being told by a pool inspector during escrow that the pool would need a drain/chlorine cleaning and then fill for several hundred dollars. I ended up going with another pool guy who said he could balance the pool and remove some minor discoloration in the plaster for a couple hundred dollars... well my mistake I guess.

    There is some minor discoloration on the floor and walls of the pool, and calcium around the tile at the water's edge, but the water looks very clear/blue and unless you look closely wouldn't know that anything is wrong. The professional I had balance the pool used citric acid and another chemical I believe to remove most of the discoloration of the plaster.

    From what I was told during disclosures the previous owners were paying a company to keep the pool clean and levels correct but after running the TFT kit, I think the previous owners and the pool guy I ended up paying to "set me up" definitely did not have the pool setup correctly and maybe the Inspector was the only guy telling the truth, although he also seemed like he was trying to get me to renovate everything on the pool and the nickel/diming on the estimates got old really fast. (New Certified Drains, UV Paint on the Cartridge canister, new pump motor, new skimmer float valve etc etc)

    At this point I'm trying to do this on my own because everyone I've tried to use seem to be trying to rip me off, so here goes.

    Based on the TFT readings I think I really am looking at a drain/fill of the pool, in the middle of a major CA drought... I wouldn't know the first thing about where to start and am looking for guidance from you all. But enough talking here are the readings I got. Any recommendations from you all would be greatly appreciated.

    Basic OTO:
    Cl/BR - 5/10
    pH 7.5

    Total Alkalinity Test:
    TA: 180-190

    FAS/DPD Test:
    FC: 12.5
    CC: .05-1

    CH: 350-360

    CYA: 100

    Here are some pic's to give you an idea that to look at the pool you wouldn't know anything is wrong, unless you look really close or look at the TFT readings.


    Ignore my wife's legs, this is the best picture I could find to show the water's color/clarity after paying a professional:



    This was during our house warming - The pool got a little cloudy with everyone in it splashing and jumping around but cleared right up the next day:


    A couple of over-exposed shot the listing agent took when the house went up for sale originally:
    IS17an2imzuiv10000000000.jpgIS1b9lv7i7dhvv1000000000.jpg
    12k Gallons/IG/Plaster (12~x30FT:3-6FT), Hayward Swimclear Cartridge, Hayward Pump, AO Smith 1081 Single Speed Motor, Built in 1999, TFT-100 Test Kit, Hayward Pool Vac XL, CA Drought- Heavy Water Restriction

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    'burbs of Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    6,491

    Re: First Time Home Buyer... On Hard Mode - 12k Gallon IG Pool

    Sadly, you probably are looking at a drain/refill because of high CYA. If you're getting a CYA result of 100, it really could be higher since the test tube doesn't go any higher. If you take and mix equal parts of pool water with tap water (that never has CYA in it) then perform the test again using this mixed water sample, you might get a different reading once you double the result.

    Knowing the true CYA number might make draining decisions easier, I dunno?

    With such high CYA, its a miracle you don't have algae. You're probably on thin ice though so keep an eye on that. I would make sure to be use bleach to chlorinate.

    TA is high. Have you read in Pool School how to lower your TA using MA plus aeration?

    Your CH is an okay number compared to some other's from out west I've read here about. If you don't drain, make sure to keep an eye on your pH and keep it on the lower end of normal to help avoid scaling.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Swampwoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    3,539

    Re: First Time Home Buyer... On Hard Mode - 12k Gallon IG Pool

    Welcome, and congrats on your new home. Lovely set up!

    If you're able to do a partial drain in your part of CA, you're summer wil be way more trouble-free.

    However, I just wanted to say that while its wise not to trust vendors, 100 CYA is kinda "situation normal" to pool industry peeps...using the pool mfg products gets you there pretty quick and due to ignorance/vested interests re the cya:FC relationship, many of them just don't know better (or are willfully ignorant.)

    Your inspector was just more knowledgeable, that's all. I doubt the vendor who cleared it knows as much as you now know about the more reliable way to manage parameters if you've read pool school and the FC:cya chart.

    I am only saying this because you mentioned feeling ripped off You could send the guy a note and ask him why on earth he left a pool with a CYA of 100 and see what he says. It might be entertaining
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!
    Helpful Links:
    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,981

    Re: First Time Home Buyer... On Hard Mode - 12k Gallon IG Pool

    You should be commended for getting the TF-100 first and being knowledgeable. At least you can plan a way forward. We know CA is going through a terrible water restriction, so you have to work within your limits. But again, at least you know. I'm actually surprised your CH isn't higher in that part of the country. So, now you probably know to refer to the Chlorine/CYA chart frequently, and you will be on the high side for sure using a bit more bleach than normal. Hopefully Mother Nature will give you some relief in the near future. In any case, that's a nice looking pool. I did some time there while stationed at Beale AFB, so I traveled around there quite a bit. I probably wouldn't recognize half of it any more. ha Welcome to TFP!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    3

    Re: First Time Home Buyer... On Hard Mode - 12k Gallon IG Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    Sadly, you probably are looking at a drain/refill because of high CYA. If you're getting a CYA result of 100, it really could be higher since the test tube doesn't go any higher. If you take and mix equal parts of pool water with tap water (that never has CYA in it) then perform the test again using this mixed water sample, you might get a different reading once you double the result.

    Knowing the true CYA number might make draining decisions easier, I dunno?

    With such high CYA, its a miracle you don't have algae. You're probably on thin ice though so keep an eye on that. I would make sure to be use bleach to chlorinate.

    TA is high. Have you read in Pool School how to lower your TA using MA plus aeration?

    Your CH is an okay number compared to some other's from out west I've read here about. If you don't drain, make sure to keep an eye on your pH and keep it on the lower end of normal to help avoid scaling.
    When I get off work today I will run the CYA test again using tap water, although I'm pretty sure that my CH levels are already high even at the tap due to our current water shortages we're having in CA. I can say I already have quite a bit of scaling at the water line, which was like that when I first bought the home. I also need to figure out how to remove that without damaging the tile going around the top of the pool. Iíll test the CYA again using tap water tonight to split it in half and give you all an update.

    I have not yet read how to lower TA (just now skimmed it), although with a drain and fill being the best option is it worth it to look into that now? I will if it is, will just need to find MA and figure out how to aerate. Our return jets aren't powerful enough to break the surface of the water and we don't have anything really to setup a "waterfall". Trying to be budget conscious I'm thinking the drain/fill might be our best option if my county will allow it. Also will need to replace my pump motor soon as the bearings aren't happy right now, maybe a more powerful pump would break the surface of the water.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swampwoman View Post
    Welcome, and congrats on your new home. Lovely set up!

    If you're able to do a partial drain in your part of CA, you're summer wil be way more trouble-free.

    However, I just wanted to say that while its wise not to trust vendors, 100 CYA is kinda "situation normal" to pool industry peeps...using the pool mfg products gets you there pretty quick and due to ignorance/vested interests re the cya:FC relationship, many of them just don't know better (or are willfully ignorant.)

    Your inspector was just more knowledgeable, that's all. I doubt the vendor who cleared it knows as much as you now know about the more reliable way to manage parameters if you've read pool school and the FC:cya chart.

    I am only saying this because you mentioned feeling ripped off You could send the guy a note and ask him why on earth he left a pool with a CYA of 100 and see what he says. It might be entertaining
    Thank you very much!

    That is very interesting that with such a high CYA and CH they would think its normal. The inspector was very knowledgable, I just started becoming leery when every time I spoke with him, his quote would change or add more items, and then when he finally got me a written estimate, it seemed like he wanted to renovate everything short of the hole in the ground and his quote went from $500~ for drain/fill and adjust to over $1100. At that point I felt like he was just trying to take me for a ride because we were first time pool owners who wouldnít know any better.

    Here was his full written estimate which honestly scared me off:

    Screen Shot 2015-06-16 at 9.19.46 AM.jpg

    The other vendor I used said he would get my water completely balanced and ready for summer for $200. I stupidly went that route not knowing that you canít lower CYA or CH without draining the pool. I should shoot him a text and see what he says.

    I went on Amazon bought a Red Baron leaf bag, 25lbs of 3 inch Tri-Chlor tabs and some clarifier. Thinking that would at least get me startedÖ after doing some reading here I really had no clue.

    Thats when I found TFP and started trying to read as much as I could but didnít really have an understanding about much of this until I got the TFT kit last week and started hands-on testing for myself. Now Iím looking for the best way forward that won't waste money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    You should be commended for getting the TF-100 first and being knowledgeable. At least you can plan a way forward. We know CA is going through a terrible water restriction, so you have to work within your limits. But again, at least you know. I'm actually surprised your CH isn't higher in that part of the country. So, now you probably know to refer to the Chlorine/CYA chart frequently, and you will be on the high side for sure using a bit more bleach than normal. Hopefully Mother Nature will give you some relief in the near future. In any case, that's a nice looking pool. I did some time there while stationed at Beale AFB, so I traveled around there quite a bit. I probably wouldn't recognize half of it any more. ha Welcome to TFP!
    I appreciate the kind words, I will say Iím definitely not knowledgable, Iím digging in and learning as much as I can. Thank you! Beale isn't to far from me, have a couple of friends that are currently stationed there. Were you there during the SR-71 heydays? Beale hasn't been the same since they retired that bird... BTT though, don't want to derail my own thread!

    I'm currently looking to plan the way forward, hopefully with everyones knowledge and guidance found here. Right now, I can 'water' on Tuesdays and Fridays. So Iím thinking about doing a drain and fill on a Friday but I will need to check with our county to make sure.

    Also Iím pretty sure that our tap water is already pretty high in CH, any recommendations there? I will check my CH from the tap tonight when I check the CYA again halving it with tap water to see where Iím at.

    My plan for now -


    • Check CYA with 50% tap water and then double the result to get a complete CYA level.
    • Check CH at the tap to see where Iím at if I refill using tap/hose - Already have scaling want to get rid of that and not be back where I started after filling.
    • Check with my county to see how much 12k-ish gallons will cost me or if its even allowed with our current water restrictions
    • Find a thread on here that goes over drain/descale/clean/fill/adjust for a plaster/tile pool (If any of you know of one that goes over this process in detail Iíd really appreciate it)
    • and worst case, see if you all have any other recommendations for me if Iím stuck with the water that is currently in there with only minor level fills once a week (which is what Iím currently doing)


    Thank you all so much for your help and advice, I really appreciate it!
    12k Gallons/IG/Plaster (12~x30FT:3-6FT), Hayward Swimclear Cartridge, Hayward Pump, AO Smith 1081 Single Speed Motor, Built in 1999, TFT-100 Test Kit, Hayward Pool Vac XL, CA Drought- Heavy Water Restriction

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    3

    Re: First Time Home Buyer... On Hard Mode - 12k Gallon IG Pool

    Hi again all!

    Sorry for not get back sooner

    I re-ran the CYA test at 50% as recommended and my CYA is closer to the 120-140 range. With this knowledge it I checked my CH at the tap. Now the TFT YouTube says to multiply by 10 for the CH test but their instructions online said to multiply by 25 so depending on that my CH at the tap is either 20-30 or 50-75.

    I checked with with my county and I'm allowed to fill on particular days and now will start looking to do a drain and fill. Now starting the search through all of the threads on best practices for this along with chlorine cleaning to remove minor discoloration and to remove the scaling on the tile. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
    12k Gallons/IG/Plaster (12~x30FT:3-6FT), Hayward Swimclear Cartridge, Hayward Pump, AO Smith 1081 Single Speed Motor, Built in 1999, TFT-100 Test Kit, Hayward Pool Vac XL, CA Drought- Heavy Water Restriction

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    'burbs of Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    6,491

    Re: First Time Home Buyer... On Hard Mode - 12k Gallon IG Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by SloWS6 View Post
    I checked with with my county and I'm allowed to fill on particular days and now will start looking to do a drain and fill. Now starting the search through all of the threads on best practices for this along with chlorine cleaning to remove minor discoloration and to remove the scaling on the tile. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
    First you need to determine how high your water table is under the pool....stop laughing . Some folks have lakes under their pools just dying to spring forth. I know you're in dry, dry California, but I feel compelled to at least give that standard warning prior to draining.

    I don't have a plaster pool so I've only read these steps here, but you want to do it quickly. Either via your pool drains or with added help from sump pump. While you're fixing any stains or whatever you need to do you should spray the exposed plaster with water to help keep it cool or wet or something... I think a dilute MA solution might work on the scaling.

    Then once filled run the filter for a while and test everything using your TF-100 handy-dandy-tester. You can post the numbers and get help with the order of chemicals then if you want help.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Anthem, AZ
    Posts
    178

    Re: First Time Home Buyer... On Hard Mode - 12k Gallon IG Pool

    You can maintain your pool with high CYA, but its not easy. If you're at 100, do a 50% drain and fill. Then test again. I had to do two drains to 65% because I was 120+, after the first drain I was at 90. Second drain hit me at 40. It was nice to spread the cost though across multiple months though.

    Pretty sure your tap water has 0 CYA. So if anything, figure you're 100+ and you should drain at least half your pool.
    19K IG Pebbletec with attached spa. 60sqft Cartridge filter, Intelliflow VS, 399k BTU Gas Heater, Pentair IC40. Phoenix, AZ, full sun.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    'burbs of Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    6,491

    Re: First Time Home Buyer... On Hard Mode - 12k Gallon IG Pool

    Isriam is exactly correct- you could do multiple drains and refills so that the pool is never totally empty. From your water use standpoint, it would increase the total amount used in the end. But it is the safest way to go.

    And Isriam is again right- there is never any CYA in tap water.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •