Little clue! Bought new house with a pool, trying to get set up.

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jjherm7

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Jun 14, 2015
35
Pittsburgh, PA
I wish I would have discovered this site a few months ago, as I've learned a few good bits of info in the past 2 hours I've been looking at the message boards. I'll go through my whole story with my pool:

Bought this house at the end of this past August, which included a 24 foot above ground round pool. (I believe it's 5 ft. deep, but honestly I haven't measured that yet.) Pretty sure it's a vinyl liner. I had absolutely no knowledge of pool care and have been totally winging it, relying on help from some friends and friends of friends with pool (though I have found even my friends don't seem to know what they're doing :)) Though it's June already, and I have yet to swim in this pool, so we're obviously not doing that well! Read on...

My pool is running with a Hayward Perflex DE Filter system (EC40C75 model). It has a Hayward Power-Flo Matrix pump. It has a Nature 2 A30 Sanitizer. And also a Hayward Automatic Chlorine Feeder.

Here's the story so far. In September when I finally moved in, I decided to finally start to try to tackle this pool thing. The previous owners had the pump just running continuously, so up until this point, I just left the thing on. I brought a friend of mine over to go through the basics with me. The friend doesn't have a DE filter, so wasn't too familiar with that. We shut off the pump at this point to try and do a "recharge" on the filter. When turning the pump back on, the pump wouldn't turn over. Great.

We have a pool store right down the street, so I asked them to come up and take a look. The tech took it apart. We did find a wish-bone shaped clamp that was partially broken holding the two halves of the pump together. Not sure if that had anything to do with any of the issues. Other than that, the tech said we'd probably need a new pump. Don't know why, but I was skeptical of needing a whole new pump, and moving into a new house, it just wasn't a priority for me at the moment. So at this point, I searched online and found the wishbone piece, and ordered one. And then since it was practically October anyway, I decided to just winterize it and worry about it and the extra cash I might need to spend next year. By this point, I had accumulated a good bit of algae in the pool as the pump wasn't running for a few weeks. I went out and picked up a basic winterizing kit from the local pool store (can't remember what all was in it, 3 or 4 different chemicals). Couldn't really follow the instructions to a tee as the pump wasn't working to send the chemicals through, so we spread them around the pool as much as we could with the manual pool skimmer. They did actually seem to help immediately with the algae (The water still looks fairly clear even right now). We threw the winter cover on, drained the water below the skimmer, brought all the equipment and hoses indoors for the winter and that was that until summer...

Summer's here and I've spent the past week or two preparing to open this thing. I went out to Walmart and purchased a bunch of chemicals a couple weeks ago (I still have the receipts and haven't opened any of these yet if anyone says they're garbage!). Here's what I got: Ph Plus, Non-Foaming Algecide, 3" Chlorinating Tablets, and a pack of Super Shock Treatment. All HTH brand.

At this point, I had another friend of a friend come over to try and give me some pointers. He basically told me the stuff I bought was garbage, and to just use the stuff at the Pool Store down the street. A little more expensive, but will do the job better. (Reading the forums here is making me think differently so not sure who to believe). He also noticed I had some cracks in my skimmer face plate and suggested buying a Aquashield skimmer face for the winter so we wouldn't have to drain the water. I actually just did this today and installed it.

Also today, I decided to take apart my DE filter to see how dirty it was inside. Not sure when or if the previous owners ever cleaned it, so I figured it might be a good idea. While doing this, I broke a hose clean off that's going to my Nature 2 Sanitizer. (My question with that is, do I even NEED a Sanitizer? Can I just bypass that all together to get this thing running? Was looking a cartridges for that thing online and they're not cheap.) Sprayed the filter out, and currently have the fingers soaking overnight in Pool Brite Filter cleaner, which I bought from the pool store today. This filter did look like it needed some desparate cleaning, so this was a good call I think. I also picked up a 10 lb bag of diatomite to refill the filter. I then have been refilling the pool with water tonight to get it back to the proper level.

I was planning on bringing some water down to the pool store to test, but after reading these forums tonight, I have just ordered a TF-100 Test kit, which should be arriving here by Monday.


Obviously, I guess my next step is I'm going to have to reattach my filter tomorrow after it's done soaking and hook it back up. I was then planning on re-checking my pump tomorrow now that I have the new wishbone piece installed to see if it works. If it doesn't, I guess I do have to make another purchase of a new pump tomorrow before I can do anything else? Unless someone knows any pump troubleshooting? Last year when we tried to run it, it just buzzed, motor didn't seem to be going.

After that, here's my next questions:

1. Do I even need the Nature 2 Sanitizer?

2. If my pump DOESN'T work tomorrow, is that a problem if I don't add the diatomite right away? I thought I read online somewhere that you need to add it within an hour of filling the filter with water. Not sure if I'll meet that deadline if I have to run out and get a new pump, and hook it up.

3. If the pump does work (or I get a new one), what should be my next set of steps after that?? Add the diatomite? Shock the pool? Alkilinity? Test the water? (can't do that until Monday when my test kit arrives unless I have the pool store test it) Chlorine tablets?

4. Should I use all the chemicals I've already bought, or purchase different?


I will also add that I have a deadline of having this pool swim-ready by July 4th as we're having a big party at the house that day. I work 50-60 hours a week, so my time's always limited as well, so can I do it? :eek: And do I have enough time to wait for my TF-100 kit to arrive?

And please, I don't know what half of these acronyms on here stand for, so please explain. I am a true beginner! A pre-emptive thank you for any and all help!

-Jon H.
 
Welcome, and great job getting that test kit on order. It will make your life so much easier and you'll have control of your pool in no time!

On your questions:
1. No, you don't need the Nature2 sanitizer. Chlorine is all the sanitizer you need. The Nature2 will also introduce metals into your water, and you don't want that. Just plumb around it.

2. Not sure about when to add the DE, maybe a DE filter person can help with that. I don't know why you'd have to add DE if you're not running the filter at all, though. Is the 1 hour for when the filter is RUNNING?

3. As an aside, earlier this year my pump was doing the HMMMMMMM thing but not kicking on. I took the capacitor off the top of the pump and put a new one of for about $15 bucks. Fixed it. You may want to ask pump specific questions in the Plumbing/Pump section of this website....lots of DIYers there on the mechanics. Once you have a running pump, get the DE in your filter first. I don't have a DE, but I know you shouldn't run without the DE in it. Then let it run for about a half hour to circulate, then test your water with your new kit (YAY!) Don't go to the pool store! While you're waiting on your kit, get all the leaves/debris out of the pool and brush the bottom and sides to loosen any algae. You could put some chlorine (walmart laundry bleach type) in it while you're waiting also, but we need an idea of your total volume to advise on how much. There is an area at the bottom of POOLMATH link to estimate your gallons. Don't use pucks, or anything but regular household bleach while you're waiting. What has been brewing in there since last summer can surely wait a couple more days...

4. The chemicals you will need on hand immediately after your first test results are several jugs of chlorine (look for 8.5% or better), and a jug of muriatic acid from Home Depot or Lowes (about $7). You may or may not need Cyuranic Acid, sold as "Conditioner" at Walmart under the HTH brand, but you don't know that yet so don't buy it, just locate it. You do NOT need the four items you bought already, so take them back.

While you're waiting, also read the Pool School link....it will set you up with the knowledge you need to take care of your OWN pool much more cheaply than throwing chemicals at it, and you'll know what your family is swimming in. For the most part, you'll only need chlorine in jugs and MA to get you through the summer. The method on this website seldom needs algaecides, and does not recommend the bags of "shock".

When you have your first test results, do the whole series of tests and post them here. Folks will walk you through each step. Oh, also read up on the SLAM process. That's likely going to be your first step, and why you need several jugs of chlorine on hand to kill the algae currently residing in your pool and get you closer to your party. If you're working a lot and you have a spouse at home, you'll need their help. Otherwise, it may take a bit longer to get there, but you'll get there.

Again, Welcome!
 
Glad you found this site. You're definitely on the right track getting a TF-100. For a little inspiration, I was a complete noob to owning a pool less than a month ago. This is what can happen in 2 weeks if you follow the expertise on here.



Now for your questions:

1: You don't need a sanitizer, you need the correct free chlorine (FC) level. Plumb the sanitizer out.

2: If the pump doesn't run tomorrow, you will be fine. I have the Hayward EC50 system and mine sat with water in it for almost a week until I started my SLAM. The problem comes when you run the pump for more than a minute or two without DE on the filter tubes. The tubes are not filters, the DE is the filter and the tubes will clog almost instantly without it. If the pump doesn't run, drain the filter back out since it will probably make your life easier when repairing the pump.

3: Pump running or not, skim as much debris out as you possibly can with a net. Then, test your pH and CYA. Get those set to the proper levels before starting a SLAM. Once you get the pump running, add your DE media within 2 minutes of starting the pump or you'll clog the filter tubes. After all of that is doing what it should, add chlorine.

4: Get rid of all the chemicals you got at Wal-Mart and/or the pool store asap and go find an Ollie's. They've got the best price I've found yet on bleach (around here). They're selling 12.5% liquid chlorine (liquid pool shock) for $2.99/gallon. Stock up on a couple cases because it sounds like you'll need to do a slam.

Read up on Pool School and follow the advice on here and you'll be swimming in no time. Also, familiarize yourself with Poolmath because you'll be using it to calculate all of your chemical additions. The most important thing in all of this is maintaining the proper levels especially your free chlorine level. The members on this site are amazing and will walk you through every step so don't be afraid to ask anything you're not sure of. Good luck!
 
Now that you mention it, the bit about the DE filter I read may have been if the pump is running. That makes more sense! So I should be okay if I can't get it to turn over today I think.

I also have just confirmed that it is 24 foot wide and 4 foot deep, round. So that should give you an idea of volume for advising on amounts of chemicals.

The jugs of chlorine you mention picking up in item #3, is the same Walmart laundry bleach type you mention in item #2?

Allright, had a big rain last night, so I'm heading out to siphon off the pool cover, hooking my filter back up, and then testing out this pump. Keeping my fingers crossed I can get it working...

Thanks for the help!

-Jon
 
Welcome aboard!

I'm a relatively new member here, but like mopar440_6, I have become a believer in a short time.

FYI: PoolMath is going to be your best friend for the next couple of weeks. Even after that, you'll remain good friends.

Putting in 24 ft. length and 4 ft depth at the bottom of PoolMath, I come up with 13,500 gallons. Put that number into the orange "Size" box at the top of PoolMath. It will now give you exact amounts of each chemical you need to get your levels from what they are 'Now' (first column) to your 'Goal' (second column).

Once you get your TF100, post a complete set of results. Then go to PoolMath and put those in as your 'Now' readings. Others who are more knowledgeable than I will come along and tell you what you should put into the 'Goal' column. Then just follow PoolMath's recommendations, with the exception of the FC recommendation. When you're SLAMing your pool, you usually want to overshoot your FC goal. The reason for that will become apparent when you test FC an hour or 2 after your first SLAM-related chlorine addition.
 
jjherm7 said:
Now that you mention it, the bit about the DE filter I read may have been if the pump is running. That makes more sense! So I should be okay if I can't get it to turn over today I think.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't be an issue as long as you get DE in the filter within a few minutes of starting the pump. Make sure you add the correct amount of DE. Adding by weight is the best but you can use one of the DE scoops to measure also, though it is less accurate. The best method I have found is to fill a 5 gallon bucket about half full of water, add the DE, and mix it all up into a thin slurry. Then slowly pour that mixture directly into the skimmer.

jjherm7 said:
I also have just confirmed that it is 24 foot wide and 4 foot deep, round. So that should give you an idea of volume for advising on amounts of chemicals.
Click to expand...

Based on the Poolmath calculator you should be around 13,500 gallons. Make sure to change the value in the "Size" box at the top left corner of the Poolmath calculator. If you find that you are consistently overshooting or undershooting your target values after adding chemicals you can adjust your size value later to bring it back in line.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

jjherm7 said:
The jugs of chlorine you mention picking up in item #3, is the same Walmart laundry bleach type you mention in item #2?
Click to expand...

Liquid chlorine, liquid pool shock, and regular bleach are all the same chemical, sodium hypochlorite but can have varied concentrations. The really cheap bargain brand bleach can be as low as 3%, some goes to 6% and 8.5% and liquid pool shock or liquid chlorine can be found in 10% to 12.5% concentrations. Make sure to check the label for the percentage. A gallon of 3% bleach will only have 3.84oz of sodium hypochlorite vs a gallon of 12.5% which will have 16oz. (IE a gallon of 12.5% at $2.99 is a better value than a bottle of 3% at $0.75) There are 3 Ollie's outlets near Pittsburgh and I've been getting 12.5% liquid pool shock at my local Ollie's for $2.99/gal. If you buy regular laundry bleach, get only the original bleach, unscented, uncolored, and not the anti splash stuff.
 
Bleach/chlorine=same thing.


Make sure it is plain, unscented, not easy pour, etc. Just plain bleach. You can also see if your local pool store has chlorine and how much it is. You will have to put down a deposit on the jugs but it might be worth it.

Walmart=8%, pool stores =11% so make sure you ask and compare with that in mind.

Kim
 
Looks like you got some good answers to your questions so far. I will give you my input as well.

1. Do I even need the Nature 2 Sanitizer?
I used to have a Nature 2 system as well, and would pay around $100 each season for a new canister. As mentioned above you do not need this, nor do you want it. As mentioned already the Nature 2 canister is a source of metal. Metals in the water will create stains on the surface of your pool, you can remove the stains with certain products and there is no sure way to remove the metals without draining the water so you will need to keep adding the product (not cheap). I just removed the canister and left the system in place.

2. If my pump DOESN'T work tomorrow, is that a problem if I don't add the diatomite right away? I thought I read online somewhere that you need to add it within an hour of filling the filter with water. Not sure if I'll meet that deadline if I have to run out and get a new pump, and hook it up.
Looks like you already figured this out as well but yes this does refer to when the pump is running as you will not be able to pull water and fill the filter without the pump running. I also use the bucket method as described above, however I use fiber instead of DE. DE does not biodegrade so you have to be careful when cleaning the filter and pumping to waste/backwash/rinse. As the DE will just remain on the ground, it is also my understanding it can be harmful if you breathe in the DE, so having a pile of dried DE laying around in your yard is not a good idea.

3. If the pump does work (or I get a new one), what should be my next set of steps after that?? Add the diatomite? Shock the pool? Alkilinity? Test the water? (can't do that until Monday when my test kit arrives unless I have the pool store test it) Chlorine tablets?
Your next step will be to run the pump add DE/fiber and let it run for at least an hour and then run a full set of test. If you need to adjust PH do that before starting the SLAM process, it is also recommended to adjust CYA before the SLAM process as well. We can offer more details on that if you need it. Take a look at the Chlorine/CYA chart to determine how high you want your SLAM CL level to be. Use Pool Math to determine how much bleach will be needed to raise your CL to that level.
Follow SLAM instructions.

4. Should I use all the chemicals I've already bought, or purchase different?
Also as mentioned you do not need the chemicals that you already purchased. You will need bleach as described above and most likely acid as also described above. If you need anything else most of it can be found at stores other than the pool store.


Before long you will be the person people will be coming to for pool advice.
 
So I've been to wal mart, lowes, and am at giant eagle now. Can't find any bleach higher than 8.25%. How important is that? Just need to use more? Or any other suggestions of other places that might have it higher? (Other than Ollie's, a little far for me tonight)

Also having trouble locating Borax. Not an immediate need, but could be later.
 

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jjherm7 said:
So I've been to wal mart, lowes, and am at giant eagle now. Can't find any bleach higher than 8.25%. How important is that? Just need to use more? Or any other suggestions of other places that might have it higher? (Other than Ollie's, a little far for me tonight)

Also having trouble locating Borax. Not an immediate need, but could be later.
Click to expand...

Use the 8.25% bleach, just make sure to change the settings in PoolMath accordingly. You can use 3% bleach and it will still do the job if you add enough. Higher percentages just mean less weight and fuss...
 
I used 8.25% bleach for my SLAM, and it turned out just fine. There for the first few days, I was adding 6-8 jugs 3 times a day (that's the maximum I could test -- before work, at noon, and after work).

I agree with kimkats, use whatever is easiest for you to pick up on the way home from work. I found myself making midnight runs to Walmart to get 15 more jugs of bleach on more than a couple of occasions. I'm sure the fine folks there thought I was cleaning up crime scenes... ;)
 
Got my test kit!

Added the diatomite today to the filter. Only issue I had here is that my filter gauge was reading 5 before I even turned the pump on. After adding diatomite, it went up to between 14 and 15. Probably have to replace the gauge? Or for the time being, can I just use 14 as a baseline? Really want to get this pool going...

I just did the quick test for PH and FC for the time being.

PH looks a little low, a little below 7.2. I estimate 7.0. What should I shoot for? 7.6? Pool Math tells me to add 105 oz of Borax if that's the case. Sound correct to everyone?

Chlorine is at a big fat zero!! Definitely will have to SLAM, as getting my cover completely off, I'm seeing more green than I realized.

After getting PH in line, I should test CYA next, correct? And adjust that for the SLAM? My SLAM question is, what should my FC target be for the SLAM? I was thinking 16, but I'm honestly just taking a stab in the dark at that!
 
Got ya covered here!

Ph should be 7.2 for a SLAM

Cya should be 30 for a SLAM

Here is the link to how to SLAM Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

Here is the link to pool math. It will tell you how much of what to add for everything.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html


Once you start the SLAM do not bother testing your PH if you FC is over 10. It will not read right.

YOu can start your SLAM now but you really need to get a new gauge to help you know when to backwash. Go get a cheap one to get you started. You can get a good one the next time need to order some pool chemicals.

Kim
 
I think the SLAM is going well. However, I did have one hiccup. We were having issues with our filter building up pressure so much that is was shooting water out the top if it wasn't bumped fairly often (like almost every hour or two). My gauge is shot, and I have a new one on the way. Well, anyways, we lost about 2 and half inches of water in the pool overnight Saturday night because of this, so my wife refilled while I was at work on Sunday. At 8:30 AM Sunday, we had an FC of 7. I added 100 oz chlorine before I went to work and asked the wife to dump a little bit throughout the day while she was refilling the pool, until I got home. She dumped about half a bottle (60 oz) throughout the day. I figured I might have lost some CYA with replacing water, so I took a reading and I maybe hit 20 (we were at 30 before this). So I added a little CYA directly to skimmer (probably should have mixed). The following are the rest of my readings and actions:

8:00 PM: FC @ 2 (added 200 oz. of chlorine to try to reach 12)
8:30 PM: FC @ 4 (added 160 oz. chlorine)
9:30 PM: FC @ 4 (at this point, I figured I'd wait a bit until CYA dissolved a little, still a bit of granules in the skimmer, might be eating chlorine up?)
10:30 PM: FC @ 1, tested CYA @ 30 (granules in skimmer dissolved so added 220 oz. bleach)
11:00 PM: FC @ 25!! (maybe I got a false reading before? Definitely have chlorine now, so no action)
12:00 AM: FC @ 13, tested CYA @ 40 (maybe added a bit too much CYA, set new FC goal of 16)
12:45 AM: FC @ 13 (added 100 oz to try to hit FC of 18, since was going to bed)

7:30 AM: FC @ 11.5 (added 90 oz bleach)
8:00 AM: FC @ 20
8:45 AM: FC @ 17 (at this point, I went out and spent a couple hours scrubbing and vacuuming the entire pool floor. A good bit of pine needles, dirt, and slime. Looks much better now!)

11:30 AM (Most recent test)
FC @ 9, tested CYA and was really hard to distinguish between 30 and 40 this time. So I'm splitting the difference and just saying that it's at 35. Set a new shock goal of 14. Added 100 oz. bleach to get it back up to here.

Does this all sound good so far? Do you think I have us back on track from our loss of water the other night? By the way, the filter seems to be running fine today. I haven't bumped it since I got up this morning and no issues.
 

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