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Thread: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

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    Lightbulb 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    I am currently lowering my TA and have always wondered what was the best method as there are many ways.

    • What do you think the best method would be in terms of speed?
    • What do you think the best method in terms of power consumption vs efficiency?



    My three contenders:
    Waterfall:
    DSC06413.jpg

    Side pool aerator fitting:
    DSC06411.jpg

    Submersible pump on step:
    DSC06412.jpg

    PS: I understand there is some variability in a question such as this. I understand power consumption is going to depend on motor size and all methods are going to depend on how they are returned to the pool (e.g. the submersible pump may be better if the spray went more horizontal and churned the surface of the water versus it being shot straight up out of the water). So I'm not asking for absolutes here, just a friendly guess.
    NEW POOL: 11k IGP, Pebbletec, Hayward Pro-Grid 3620 D.E. Filter, 1HP Pentair?/Emerson
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    Scuba_Steve's Avatar
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    Re: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    Whatever breaks the surface more, which the submersible pump seems to win hands down from the pics.
    6425g Intex Ultraframe 18'x48" AG
    Stock 1500gph cartridge filter / Intex SWG CG-28669 with E.C.O.
    Install date: 5/26/2015
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    Re: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    Thanks for your reply. Right now it is pointed at a 45 degree angle. I tried to angle it more in-line with the surface but it would spin the pump. Need a brick or something to keep it still.
    NEW POOL: 11k IGP, Pebbletec, Hayward Pro-Grid 3620 D.E. Filter, 1HP Pentair?/Emerson
    OLD POOL: 12.3k IGP, Pebbletec, Pentair 60 D.E. Filter, 1HP Pentair/Emerson + 1HP Pentair waterfall, Pentair IC40, and borated

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    chemgeek has posted on the relationship between CO2 outgassing rates and pH HERE and HERE.

    If you want to know what will outgas CO2 the fastest - all three at once! It just depends on how much electricity you want to expend in the process. If you want a carbon-free alternative to using electricity, then have a big pool party and let 20 kids splash around in your pool; the aeration will be intense....

    Since you have the waterfall already plumbed in, I suppose I'd vote for that. Seems a lot easier than rigging up the submersible and it also looks like it splashes around the largest volume of water.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    This is true. I have ran all three at once. Since the main pump needs to cycle water every day anyways, the aerator on the side is helpful without extra power consumption. The waterfall is on it's own pump, so extra power. But that kind what spurned this question... let us just assume that the waterfall is the best speed wise, but worst in power. Is it worth it in terms of ROI?

    I laughed at the kid party. Ha!
    NEW POOL: 11k IGP, Pebbletec, Hayward Pro-Grid 3620 D.E. Filter, 1HP Pentair?/Emerson
    OLD POOL: 12.3k IGP, Pebbletec, Pentair 60 D.E. Filter, 1HP Pentair/Emerson + 1HP Pentair waterfall, Pentair IC40, and borated

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    What's your electric rates and pump power draw?

    Try to determine which method has the largest water volume effect (largest volume of bubbles per unit volume of water) and then scale the out gassing rate for each one assuming the largest one has the highest rate.

    Is the waterfall real rocks or faux rocks (colored plaster)? I've always wondered on my waterfall if the presence of limestone affects lower pH water by leaching calcium carbonate and thus increasing alkalinity.




    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Scuba_Steve's Avatar
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    Re: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Is the waterfall real rocks or faux rocks (colored plaster)? I've always wondered on my waterfall if the presence of limestone affects lower pH water by leaching calcium carbonate and thus increasing alkalinity.
    Let me start by saying I have no clue if chlorine will cause limestone to leach calcium out. If it does then this is null and void.

    I do know from years and years of keeping both saltwater and cichlid aquariums that the use of calcium based substrates to buffer pH up to the 8.2 range is a myth. I can not point to any articles unfortunately right now, but ths is discussed occasionally by the chemistry experts on those forums. For calcium based rocks to actually have an effect, pH has to be much lower than we see in either a pool or an aquarium.
    6425g Intex Ultraframe 18'x48" AG
    Stock 1500gph cartridge filter / Intex SWG CG-28669 with E.C.O.
    Install date: 5/26/2015
    TF-100
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve View Post
    Let me start by saying I have no clue if chlorine will cause limestone to leach calcium out. If it does then this is null and void.

    I do know from years and years of keeping both saltwater and cichlid aquariums that the use of calcium based substrates to buffer pH up to the 8.2 range is a myth. I can not point to any articles unfortunately right now, but ths is discussed occasionally by the chemistry experts on those forums. For calcium based rocks to actually have an effect, pH has to be much lower than we see in either a pool or an aquarium.
    I was only talking about the low pH that one would use when trying to lower TA. Chlorine definitely does not leach calcium.

    I'd say it all depends on your CSI. If it is negative and the water is under-saturated with calcium carbonate, then any source of calcium carbonate be it limestone rock or plaster pool surfaces is fair game for slow dissolution.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    My rocks are real rocks. I haven't checked any of my pump power draws but I'm just assuming that either the main or the waterfall pump would be more than the submersible.

    I am just asking all of this for fun. Like, if you had a friend who said they needed to aerate, and they had the three options listed above, what would you suggest to them on the fly? IMHO, I think the submersible pump with the nozzle angled so that it churns the water more would be best. I would guess that it uses far less electricity than a large single-speed pool pump (but I could be wrong).
    NEW POOL: 11k IGP, Pebbletec, Hayward Pro-Grid 3620 D.E. Filter, 1HP Pentair?/Emerson
    OLD POOL: 12.3k IGP, Pebbletec, Pentair 60 D.E. Filter, 1HP Pentair/Emerson + 1HP Pentair waterfall, Pentair IC40, and borated

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    Scuba_Steve's Avatar
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    Re: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    I'd say it all depends on your CSI. If it is negative and the water is under-saturated with calcium carbonate, then any source of calcium carbonate be it limestone rock or plaster pool surfaces is fair game for slow dissolution.
    Good point. I didn't think of the fact that in both of the aquarium examples I used the CSI is certainly very over saturated. My saltwater aquarium reads 450ppm of calcium on average.
    6425g Intex Ultraframe 18'x48" AG
    Stock 1500gph cartridge filter / Intex SWG CG-28669 with E.C.O.
    Install date: 5/26/2015
    TF-100
    Helpful Links

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: 3 contenders: What works best for aeration?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve View Post
    Good point. I didn't think of the fact that in both of the aquarium examples I used the CSI is certainly very over saturated. My saltwater aquarium reads 450ppm of calcium on average.
    Ha, that's nothing! My pool water is 625ppm CH!!

    Maybe that explains the reef and clownfish in the deep end


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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