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Thread: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

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    Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    FC 4.2
    CC 0
    PH 7.8
    TA 80
    CH 180
    CYA 40
    BOR 40

    I was wondering if there was something I could do to keep my PH from constantly rising. Muriatic Acid is the one chemical I hate working with, the odor gags me.
    I don't seem to have any other problems and my pool has never looked better since I started using the BBB method the middle of last year. This sites calculator has always been spot on.
    Thanks for your time,
    Bob
    28' Above Ground Round, Vinyl Liner 22,000 gal
    Sand Filter 2hp Pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2006

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    If your fill water is high in alkalinity, it will take a while to get TA down to where pH stabilizes. And every time you add more water to replace what has evaporated and splashed out, you'll need to add more acid.

    Have you noticed that the amount of acid you need each time has gone down and that it goes a little longer between additions? If so, you are making progress.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    So far I have only had to add about 1 inch of water once, we have had enough rain to keep the water high enough. I also keep a solar cover on it whenever it is not being used, that probably helps a lot with evaporation.
    If the amount I have added has gone down, it is not by much, seems pretty consistent. I might have to change to dry acid to keep from choking so bad, have actually gotten sick a couple of times. If I do, will it throw anything else off?
    Thanks,
    Bob
    28' Above Ground Round, Vinyl Liner 22,000 gal
    Sand Filter 2hp Pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    Quote Originally Posted by dartrunner View Post
    So far I have only had to add about 1 inch of water once, we have had enough rain to keep the water high enough. I also keep a solar cover on it whenever it is not being used, that probably helps a lot with evaporation.
    If the amount I have added has gone down, it is not by much, seems pretty consistent. I might have to change to dry acid to keep from choking so bad, have actually gotten sick a couple of times. If I do, will it throw anything else off?
    Thanks,
    Bob
    Dry acid adds Sulfates. I don't know what conditions would have to be met to have the sulfur react and start smelling, but I'm afraid to find out, personally.

    Use the search box up above for dry acid and you'll find lots of previous discussions.

    How long has the pool been filled? And what do you target for pH when you do add acid? What does is your tap water TA?
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    Bob,

    How are you adding the muratic acid that you are breathing in so many fumes? I seldom, if ever breath in fumes and I add every 3 to 4 days.

    Here is what I do....

    First, I never measure into a second container. I free pour directly into the pool using the guesstimate method.

    I take the bottle of acid to the pool side and kneel down. I splash pool water on the deck and this wet spot is the only place I set the acid bottle down. To pour I take note of the wind direction and make sure the bottle is on the downwind side of my body. Remove the cap and partially submerge the bottle in the pool. I then tilt the bottle and slowly pour out what I think I need. Recap the bottle and I'm done.

    Like is said, I seldom breathe in any fumes.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Dry acid adds Sulfates. I don't know what conditions would have to be met to have the sulfur react and start smelling, but I'm afraid to find out, personally.

    Use the search box up above for dry acid and you'll find lots of previous discussions.

    How long has the pool been filled? And what do you target for pH when you do add acid? What does is your tap water TA?

    I had to add about 12" when I opened it at the end of April. Did a quick test on my tap water and TA was 60. I target 7.4 when I add and let it rise to 7.8 before I add again.
    28' Above Ground Round, Vinyl Liner 22,000 gal
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    Quote Originally Posted by dartrunner View Post
    I had to add about 12" when I opened it at the end of April. Did a quick test on my tap water and TA was 60. I target 7.4 when I add and let it rise to 7.8 before I add again.
    Something's going on, then. If the fill water is only 60 TA, how'd the pool get to 80? It must have been really high before, or you've been adding baking soda. I'd target 7.2 when I added acid. The lower pH will speed up the outgassing that lowers TA which in turn slows down pH rise, and it will get you an extra day or two between acid doses.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Bob,

    How are you adding the muratic acid that you are breathing in so many fumes? I seldom, if ever breath in fumes and I add every 3 to 4 days.

    Here is what I do....

    First, I never measure into a second container. I free pour directly into the pool using the guesstimate method.

    I take the bottle of acid to the pool side and kneel down. I splash pool water on the deck and this wet spot is the only place I set the acid bottle down. To pour I take note of the wind direction and make sure the bottle is on the downwind side of my body. Remove the cap and partially submerge the bottle in the pool. I then tilt the bottle and slowly pour out what I think I need. Recap the bottle and I'm done.

    Like is said, I seldom breathe in any fumes.
    I do poor it into a glass 4 cup measuring cup to the oz that the Poolmath Calculator suggests, then slowly poor it into the pool above the only jet. The deck fence is close on that side of the pool and blocks anything but a strong breeze. I can see vapors coming back up from where the acid is hitting the water, and they usually come straight back at me. Not sure if I could guess good enough to hit the exact amount that needs to be added.
    28' Above Ground Round, Vinyl Liner 22,000 gal
    Sand Filter 2hp Pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Something's going on, then. If the fill water is only 60 TA, how'd the pool get to 80? It must have been really high before, or you've been adding baking soda. I'd target 7.2 when I added acid. The lower pH will speed up the outgassing that lowers TA which in turn slows down pH rise, and it will get you an extra day or two between acid doses.
    When I opened the pool in April the TA was 50, I added enough Baking soda to get it to 80, (The Pool Math Calc target was 70 - 90) and the TA has remained constant since.
    28' Above Ground Round, Vinyl Liner 22,000 gal
    Sand Filter 2hp Pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    The only things I have had to put into the pool since opening was enough baking soda to get to 80 which was done the first week, about a gallon of bleach a week, roughly a cup or 2 every other day, and about three cups of muriatic acid every 3 - 5 days.
    When I opened the pool the Ph was above 8.0 (high as the test kit can read) and the FC was at 18 and the TA was 50. The water was crystal clear and I was one happy dude. Never happened before, always a green mess.
    28' Above Ground Round, Vinyl Liner 22,000 gal
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    It is OK to let TA drop down to 60 or so and that could help stabilize your PH. Also, adding borates could help stabilize it too. Here is how, Borates - Why and How

    +1 on the wind is your friend. Your guess will be close enough. But, if you are worried about it then target 7.7. Or get a sharpie and mark out estimated quart level marks.
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    My borates are already at 40, I could bring them up another 10 and see if that helps.
    Thanks for all the help.
    Bob
    28' Above Ground Round, Vinyl Liner 22,000 gal
    Sand Filter 2hp Pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    At my Home Depot they sell a "green" version of MA. It is basically a diluted down version. Problem is it costs the same as full strength. It does not ever hit me in the face though.

    This just now got me thinking. If they sell it diluted, couldn't you dilute it yourself? In a downwind area. And you would only have to do this once a month or so. Even less if you did multiple gallons in one sitting.
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    Brought my borates up to 50 and got my TA down to 70 and the PH seems to have stabilized at 7.6. Hopefully it will stay that way for the rest of the season. Thanks to everyone for all the help and suggestions.
    Bob
    28' Above Ground Round, Vinyl Liner 22,000 gal
    Sand Filter 2hp Pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    And also, I "borrowed" a respirator with an acid filter from work because I knew I would be adding muriatic acid to counteract the borax. I don't know what it is about that edge of the pool where the jet is, but the vapors want to come right back at me. The respirator is a little bit of a pain, but well worth it. (to me anyway) I guess I am just super sensitive to it.
    Bob
    28' Above Ground Round, Vinyl Liner 22,000 gal
    Sand Filter 2hp Pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    Quote Originally Posted by dartrunner View Post
    I had to add about 12" when I opened it at the end of April. Did a quick test on my tap water and TA was 60. I target 7.4 when I add and let it rise to 7.8 before I add again.
    I get a bucket of pool water, then measure my acid into it, noting wind direction. I then pour the bucket slowly back in the pool and have less fumes this way.
    6640 gallon outdoor in-ground 8x26 pebble pool, 3'-5' deep, Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed pump, Jandy CL580 Cartridge Filter, Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWCG

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve View Post
    At my Home Depot they sell a "green" version of MA. It is basically a diluted down version. Problem is it costs the same as full strength. It does not ever hit me in the face though.

    This just now got me thinking. If they sell it diluted, couldn't you dilute it yourself? In a downwind area. And you would only have to do this once a month or so. Even less if you did multiple gallons in one sitting.
    not sure what the purpose of that would be. you would actually be doing more pourings and have more exposure to the fumes/acid. no need to be super precise with MA measurements. if pool math says you need 32 oz, well then just pour 1/4 of the gallon jug in. just eyeball it. if you are short or add additional...oh well, no big deal at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacFL View Post
    I get a bucket of pool water, then measure my acid into it, noting wind direction. I then pour the bucket slowly back in the pool and have less fumes this way.
    same thing here, seems like you are doubling your exposure. no need to be so precise, pH adjustments are as precise as raising FC anyway. just pour direct into pool by eyeballing % of the jug needed.
    Dan
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    I wouldn't recommend pouring acid into a measuring cup. That is your problem with the fumes hitting you. I just eye ball it. I turn my head away while pouring it and make sure to stay down wind always. You can't go wrong if you add a little too much in my eyes. Maybe if you have swimmers coming the same day. But you can always adjust it with some baking soda if needed.
    16x32 27k gal oval gunite pool, 24-inch Hayward sand filter, 1HP pump

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    My understanding is that the ph of your eyes is 7.2 - 7.4, so in my mind, a little low would be more comfortable to a persons eyes. I have lowered to 7.2 when we were having company and it seemed that I didn't get any complaints about eye burning. Maybe just a coincidence. I lowered to 7.2 before a party last Saturday and on Monday the ph was back to 7.6, how does it bring itself back up so quickly?
    Bob
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid every 3 or 4 days

    The two main causes of rising PH are high TA and aeration in the pool.
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