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Thread: Question on Hardness and Borate?

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    jorivesud's Avatar
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    Question on Hardness and Borate?

    Hi,

    Just started our new pool last week.
    Parameters are like this:
    FC: 7 (slowly going down from shock condition, targeting 3)
    CC: 0
    PH: 7.5
    TA: 70
    CH: 500
    CYA: untested, will do this week-end
    Salt: 2600 (will add more tonight to go at 3200)
    Pool is using SWG

    Now my questions:
    - Will I have trouble with my CH that high?
    - Should I use Borate?

    thanks.

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    DaninFLA's Avatar
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    Re: Question on Hardness and Borate?

    CH of 500 isn't bad. mine is over 700 with no issues. just have to keep pH steady, and your TA looks good.

    CYA needs to get tested, that's the most important piece of info that is missing. if you just filled the pool, then its zero unless you have been adding powder shock and/or chlorine pucks at all.

    I wouldn't mess with borates at this point. get your pool setup and get into a rhythm and then worry about borates if you want to.

    which test kit are you using??

    how can you be targeting a FC of 3 if you don't know your CYA??
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    jorivesud's Avatar
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    Re: Question on Hardness and Borate?

    My test kit is Taylor K-2006.
    I did add some CYA, but should not really be testable until the week-end.
    It should be at around 30 from what I added already.
    As for my FC target, I was thinking of shooting for a CYA of 60, which is why I was going to aim for FC at 3.
    SWG is not turned on. Waiting for FC to go down before I turn it on.

    Does this make sense?

    The Borate question was for future, once pool is all good.

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    jorivesud's Avatar
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    Re: Question on Hardness and Borate?

    I redid my test tonight.
    I noticed I made a mistake for my TA (multiplied by 10 instead of 25, since I had used the 10ml mark)
    Here are the latest result, without mistakes now, I double checked my result and instructions...
    I also did my CYA (Stab was added Saturday morning, so 5 days now)
    FC: 8
    CC: 0
    PH: 7.5
    TA: 150
    CH: 500
    CYA: 35
    Salt: 2600
    SWG is still off

    A note on what I had done already:
    Saturday PH was at 8.0
    Tuesday night, yesterday, I had added 500ml(2 cups) of muriatic acid which did bring my PH to 7.5, and should also have lowered my TA
    Other parameters only got tested Tuesday night, so my 70 TA was 175 (if I had multiplied by 25...)

    I just added another 500ml of muriatic acid to get TA down.

    am I on the right track?
    12x20 vinyl liner + fiberglass steps. (6800 Gallons)
    SWCG - Hayward Salt&Swim 3C
    Hayward XStream Cartridge Filter (200 SQ.FT)
    Hayward TriStar VSP
    Raypak heat pump, Taylor K-2006 test kit.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    DaninFLA's Avatar
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    Re: Question on Hardness and Borate?

    you are in great shape. your TA is a little bit high but you can reduce it. add enough MA to lower your pH to 7.2, then make sure your return jets are aimed near the surface. the surface agitation will help raise your pH, as well as your SWCG too. this cycle over and over will lower your TA and your pH will be more stable. with a high TA, your pH is always going to want to creep up.

    I had a TA of 120 and got it down to 70 by adding muriatic acid as described. its not too critical really at this point and luckily the result of having TA (high pH), results in adding MA to lower the pH, which also reduces TA, so its kind of natural progression.

    need to get your salt up and get that SWCG up and running now.

    other than that I think you are in great shape.

    have you run a OCLT to confirm no algae? I would make sure you are good on that before getting your CYA too high.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    jorivesud's Avatar
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    Re: Question on Hardness and Borate?

    Thanks for your reply.
    Yes, OCLT passed.
    Even during day time, my FC doesn't go down very quickly (cold water, many trees and not much sun lately).
    I barely lose 1ppm per day.

    Last night I added another 2 cups of MA. PH was at 7.4 this morning. We had a heavy pouring rain about 20 minutes after I added MA.
    I added about 30 pounds of salt, which should bring my salt close to 3100.
    I also turned on the heater, since my water is at 62. Hopefully, this will help reduce FC and have the pool ready for swimming over the week-end.
    I'm also waiting for FC to go down before turning on SWCG.

    I will do full readings tonight(when I get back from work) and add more MA.
    12x20 vinyl liner + fiberglass steps. (6800 Gallons)
    SWCG - Hayward Salt&Swim 3C
    Hayward XStream Cartridge Filter (200 SQ.FT)
    Hayward TriStar VSP
    Raypak heat pump, Taylor K-2006 test kit.

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    DaninFLA's Avatar
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    Re: Question on Hardness and Borate?

    sounds like you have a plan!
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    jorivesud's Avatar
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    Re: Question on Hardness and Borate?

    Tonight's readings:
    TC: 6.5 (we had a nice day and had the pool at 70(from 62), so TC went down by 2 (SWCG is still off))
    pH: 7.5
    TA: 140
    CH: 500
    CYA: 35
    Salt: 3200

    added another 16oz of MA
    Should be able to fire up the SWCG tomorrow (waiting to be at ~4)
    Tomorrow, will turn the heat on to 80 for week-end swim.
    Will keep bringing TA down.

    I'm thinking of waiting for my TA to be at around 80 before I raise CYA to around 60.
    what do you think?
    12x20 vinyl liner + fiberglass steps. (6800 Gallons)
    SWCG - Hayward Salt&Swim 3C
    Hayward XStream Cartridge Filter (200 SQ.FT)
    Hayward TriStar VSP
    Raypak heat pump, Taylor K-2006 test kit.

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    jorivesud's Avatar
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    Re: Question on Hardness and Borate?

    This morning readings:
    TC: 5
    CC: 0
    pH: 7.3
    TA: 110
    CH: 500
    CYA: 35
    Salt: 3200
    SWCG is up and running since yesterday morning.
    water is crystal clear.
    temp at 76, should get to 80 for the afternoon.

    I will keep bringing my TA down to about 70-80.
    for my CYA, should I wait for TA to be at target? Or should I raise it now?
    12x20 vinyl liner + fiberglass steps. (6800 Gallons)
    SWCG - Hayward Salt&Swim 3C
    Hayward XStream Cartridge Filter (200 SQ.FT)
    Hayward TriStar VSP
    Raypak heat pump, Taylor K-2006 test kit.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Question on Hardness and Borate?

    You can start raising that CYA now to your recommended level for a SWG system. Have a good weekend.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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