Become a TFP Supporter Welcome to our new server and new forum software. Pool School
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    25

    How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

    If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you!

    Hello everyone. I've been hanging out over at the PoolSpaForum for quite some time, but I never posted here. We have a pretty good thread going over there about Water Maintenance using Chlorine. http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/in...pic=13634&st=0 I figured I would post it over here also.

    Introduction
    There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and Sanitation. There are a few different methods to sanitize your hot tub, Bromine and Chlorine being the most popular. However, I will only cover Chlorine, because that's what I know the best, thanks to Richard (Chem Geek). It is based on his famous Dichlor/Bleach method. If you're interested in Bromine, here http://www.troublefreepool.com/how-d...pool-t102.html is an excellent writeup. However, Water Balance is related to all sanitation methods, so this could be helpful to anyone.

    I will assume you have a fresh fill of water in your tub. If you don't and you're having problems, or it's close to the time to refill, you're better off just refilling your tub and starting over. Hot tub water should be changed every 3-5 months depending on usage. However, if your tub has serious problems, or you bought a used tub etc., you may want to decontaminate your tub. Hillbilly Hot Tub has laid out the process nicely here http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/in...econtamination.

    In order to really maintain your water properly you need to test it. Test strips are ok for getting rough estimates, but IMO will make it more difficult to maintain your tub. It would be difficult for me to keep my tub as well tuned as it is by just using test strips. For a novice, I can see it being really difficult, especially if you have Well Water. Do yourself a favor and get a Drop Test kit such as the Taylor K-2006.

    One more note. Before I got my hot tub, I knew nothing about water chemistry. After I started studying hot tub water chemistry, I realized there was a lot more to keeping a hot tub water safe then I anticipated. However, after learning it, I realized it doesn't have to be difficult or time consuming. This may get a little technical, but once you learn it, you'll have no trouble keeping your water balanced/sanitized.

    Water Balance
    Water can be either Acidic, Balanced or Alkaline. If your water is not balanced, it could cause all kinds of problems. If it's too Acidic it could cause corrosion. If it's too Alkaline it could cause scaling. Both of which will reducing the effectiveness of your sanitizer. If your water is not balanced your water is not safe for you, or your tub. So it's really critical to get this correct.

    There are four main parameters to keeping your water balanced. Water Temperature, Calcium Hardness (CH), Total Alkalinity (TA) and Potens Hydrogen (pH). Assuming your water temp is around 100 degrees, we'll just focus on CH, TA and pH. The best way to test these is with a Drop Test kit, like the one mentioned above. IMO Test Strips are just not accurate enough to test these, especially for a beginner.

    Calcium Hardness: CH is basically the amount of Calcium in your water. The lower your CH, the higher your TA and pH need to be to have balanced water. The higher your CH, the lower your TA and pH need to be. The first thing you should do is test your CH in your tub. If you haven't filled your tub yet, test your tap water for CH using a drop test kit. If you have a water softener in your house, it will remove most of the Calcium in your water. That means you may get a different reading from your indoor sink then from the outdoor hose. Check both to make sure. If you have really bad well water i.e. lots of metals etc., you may want to fill your tub using the water softener water, then just add Calcium afterward. If your water is city treated water, you may be ok straight from the hose. Also, consider getting a pre-filter that attaches to your hose, and filters out some of the metals.

    Here's my recommendation. If your CH is much below 100 ppm, you should add calcium to bring it up to 130-150 range. If your CH is over 100, you can leave it alone and just make a note of what it is. The CH level will be used to determine your TA/pH levels. To raise Calcium you add Calcium Chloride, aka Calcium Increaser. You can find it at most Pool/Spa supply stores. The good news is you only need to add Calcium once per water change, because it will stay relatively the same until your next water change.

    Potens Hydrogen: pH is the measure of acidity in your water. It's on a scale of 0 to 14, 7 being neutral. The human eye has a pH of 7.5, so the ideal range in Pools/Spas is 7.4-7.6 with a min of 7.2 and max of 7.8. However, and this is important, just because you have a pH of 7.5, doesn't mean your water is balanced. If your CH is too low, you could be corroding your hot tub heater. If your TA is too high, you could be forming scale in your tub. Both of which will reduce your sanitizer effectiveness. So it is very important to have balanced water along with an ideal pH.

    Total Alkalinity: Alkalinity is a pH Buffer. High levels of TA will not allow pH to change from additions of acid or base. However, a high TA requires a low pH to have balanced water. On the other hand, very low levels of TA will allow the pH to change with very little acid. A very low TA level could cause your pH to drop to low levels, very fast with little acid. Also, the lower your TA, the higher your pH needs to be to have balanced water. So as you can see, a very low TA can become very unstable.

    However, pH will have a tenancy to rise with aeration (i.e. use of jets and air), more so if your TA is high. Although, as long as you're not adding Acid (or anything with a lower pH) to your tub, the pH will not usually drop. Therefore, in hot tubs the problem is normally pH rise (or Drift), because of all the aeration. So the trick is to get the TA high enough to not create an unstable situation, and low enough to not allow pH to rise too much.

    Let me repeat the last sentence, because it's the single most important thing to keeping your water balanced. The key to having balanced water, without pH drift, is having the correct TA level. If you find your pH rises too high (>8.0) after using your tub, your TA is too high, and needs to be lowered. If you find your pH is too low and/or your water is continually acidic, your TA is too low and needs to be raised. By fine tuning your TA, you can get your pH perfectly balanced, that rarely needs adjustment.

    SO, what's a good TA then? Because spas tends to have a lot of aeration from jets and because the water is hot, it is best to keep the TA low at around 50 ppm.

    OK, how do we adjust TA then? If TA is too low, you just add Baking Soda to raise it. However, if TA is high, it's little more involved. You'll need Acid (Dry or Muriatic). Depending on how high your TA is will depend on how long it will take you. Plan on it taking around an hour to decrease TA by 100 ppm. So if your TA is 300 ppm, plan it taking around 2-3 hours. First, uncover your tub and turn on all your jets, air, blowers, waterfalls etc. Test your pH. When it's greater than 7.8, add enough acid to bring it down to 7.0. Keep aerating until your pH is 7.8 again (about 30 min), then add more acid and repeat. Every time you add acid you're lowering your pH and TA. When you get your TA tuned perfectly, your pH will rise to a level (i.e. ~7.6) and stop, then you know you're at your ideal TA level. If your pH is rising too high (>8.0), bring your TA down a little more. If your pH doesn't rise enough from aeration (after an hour or more), you over shot it and need to add a little Baking Soda to raise your TA. After a few days/weeks of monitoring it, you'll get your TA tuned perfectly. You may need to add a little Dry Acid once a week or two, but your water should be well balanced at that point.

    I wouldn't go much below 50 ppm TA, because that could become unstable if you add any kind of acid. Also, if you have a very high TA, above 100, you may need to add more acid in the beginning to get your pH down. Remember, TA is a pH buffer, so the higher the TA, the more acid you need to bring the pH down. It takes approximately 8 oz total of Dry Acid to bring TA down 100 ppm in a 350 Gal tub. However, the key is not to add too much acid all at once to bring your pH down under 7.0. That's why you should aerate in between adding acid.

    Lastly, there is one more thing I haven't mentioned that you can add to your tub that will help buffer your pH, Borates. The easiest way to add Borates to your tub is to get a product called Gentle Spa. It is pH balanced, so there is no need to add acid to counter balance it. The ideal amount is ~50 ppm, and only needs to be added once per water change. That will help keep your pH from drifting from aeration. Not to mention, actually make your water feel silkier. I highly recommend it.

    BTW, I'm purposely not giving the exact amounts of Calcium, Baking Soda or Acid to use, because PoolMath will calculate that all for you. Just enter your tub size at the top, enter the current level in the left column, then enter your goal amount in the right. It will tell you the amount and what you need to add. For instance, if you enter tub size of 320 gal, a pH of 7.8 in the left column and 7.0 in the right, it calculates .4 oz or 2 tbs of Dry Acid. All you need to balance your water perfectly is Calcium Chloride, Baking Soda, Dry Acid and The Pool Calculator.

    Sanitation
    I'm only going to discuss Chlorine here, because I don't know enough about Bromine to comment on it. This is based on Chem Geeks Dichlor/Bleach method. I have found this method to be very easy and safe to use. I have yet to have a problem. I don't want to get into pros and cons, because that's better suited for it's own thread. If you don't know his method, this should explain it to you. If you do know it, maybe this will help you execute it better. I'm not going to get too technical. I'm just going to discuss everything that's important to keep your tub sanitized easily. If you want more details, search through Chem Geek's posts. You'll have plenty to read. Disclaimer: I'm not trying to convince you to use this method. I'm just explaining it. Please weigh all options before making a decision.

    There are really two main things happening when your pool/tub is being sanitized. Organic waste is being oxidized, and bacteria/viruses are being killed. Chlorine does both, very well. That's why it's the most popular sanitizer in pools and spas. However, in order for chlorine to be effective there needs to be a Free Chlorine (FC) level in your tub at all times. If it drops to zero, bacteria will multiple within hours. So the number one rule with using chlorine as a sanitizer is, never let it drop to Zero for any length of time. Now lets get started on the procedure.

    The first thing we are going to use to sanitize our tub is Dichlor. Dichlor is actually two things, Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid (CYA). CYA is a chlorine stabilizer, which slows down dissipation from UV rays (sunlight). It also acts as a buffer to hold chlorine in reserve. Having CYA in your tub will stop the chlorine from dissipating as fast while waiting for something to do. However, CYA also cuts down on the ability for the chlorine to sanitize. So in other words, the higher the CYA level, the longer the FC will wait in the tub, but the less effective the FC is. With no CYA in the tub, using bleach would be too strong and not practical to use. So, there needs to be a happy medium. Luckily Chem Geek has come up with one for us. He suggests a CYA of ~20 ppm. Personally I use a CYA of 30 ppm for reasons I won't get into here. But I think Chem Geek would agree anywhere between 20-50 is fine. Where the problem comes in is when CYA gets too high (above 100) after weeks of using Dichlor. Then your FC needs to be really high to get the same sanitation effectiveness. That's why we switch to bleach after we get our CYA to 20-30. Bleach doesn't add anymore CYA.

    So, I'm going to assume our target CYA is 30, but feel free to use 20 and adjust as necessary. I find that it's easier to keep track of how much Dichlor you're adding to the tub and calculate the CYA, rather than testing CYA with the drop test kit until you get a 30 ppm reading. For every 10 ppm of Dichlor you add to your tub, you add 9 ppm CYA. So roughly 34 ppm Dichlor will give you 30 CYA. On a fresh fill, and after your water is balanced by the above method, shock your tub with Dichlor to 10 ppm FC. Then over the course of the next days, depending on bather load, add 24 ppm more FC using Dichlor. You want to keep your FC normally between 3-6 ppm everyday. This means you will be testing your FC EVERYDAY.

    For example: On one day you test your FC and it's 1 ppm. You'll then add 5 ppm FC to bring it to 6. The next day you test FC and it's 3. You then add 3 ppm FC. You will do this until you add a total of 34 ppm FC to your tub using Dichlor. After that, you then switch to using bleach (Clorox Regular Unscented). Important: if you're not willing to test your tub everyday, at least for the first month or two, this method is not for you. I'd recommend another sanitation method

    When you use your tub (this applies to when you are still using Dichlor or after you switch to bleach), the rule of thumb is, you'll use approximately 7 ppm FC per person per hour in a 350 gal tub. Now this will depend on a lot of things, water temp, cleanliness of the users etc. If it's just two people, after taking showers, using no swimsuits, with the temp at 98 you may only need 2 ppm FC/person/hour. However, if you have 6 people in their clothes, drinking (spilling) beer, with a temp at 102 causing everyone to sweat, you may need 20 ppm FC/person/hour. So this is where you may need to make a judgment call and/or experiment. Remember, the Chlorine has to do two things, Oxidize Waste, and Kill Bacteria. If your tub is being subjected to a lot of waste (sweat, beer etc), your FC will be used up and not be able to kill bacteria. Not good! So I'll give you two scenarios and how you might go about running an experiment. Remember, all this up front work is only necessary in the beginning, until you learn how much FC is being used in your tub. Once you know, it becomes easy to maintain. The rule of thumb is, assuming CYA is 20-30 ppm, FC should normally be between 3-6, with a min of 1 and shock to 12 once a week.

    We'll go with the easy one first, two people, showered, no suits etc. (Note: Some people prefer to use the tub with very little FC. That's your choice. I'm just telling you how to determine how much FC you're using in a safe manner). Test your FC and add Chlorine to get to 5 ppm FC. After one hour of soaking test FC again. If you find you have no FC after an hour, next time start with 6 or 7. If you find you still have 3 ppm FC, next time it's safe to start with 3-4 ppm FC. Get it? The trick is to have the lowest amount of FC without ever dropping to zero. If you plan on staying in the tub longer than an hour, either start out with more FC, or add some during the soak. However, you don't want to get into the tub with the FC much above 8, unless of course you like a strong smell of chlorine. I got in once with FC at 10, and it was a little too much for me, and I like the smell of Chlorine.

    On the other extreme. Full tub of people drinking, sweating etc. Do the same as above, but start out with more FC, maybe 6-8 ppm. Check the FC in an hour (or even a half). If you have no FC, you need to add some and check more often. If you still have FC, add some, and check again in the same time frame. It's the same as above, but you're just using more FC, more often. However, having the FC drop to zero for a short time with your lover, is not the same as with 4-5 other people, if you get my drift. So it's much more important to keep FC above zero at all times during a Hot Tub Party.

    If you find you're having trouble keeping FC in your tub during party's, and/or you smell a foul odor during your soaks, you can add Potassium Monopersulfate (MPS or Non-Chlorine Shock) before (and/or during) your soak to help the Chlorine Oxidize waste. The only thing I would say is, go easy with MPS. Use only the amount needed and not much more. It is acidic and will lower your TA/pH if you use a lot. Start out with 1-2 tbs in addition to your normal FC, and see if that cuts down on the FC usage. Up it to 3-4 tbs, or add another 1-2 tbs during the soak if needed. MPS will help oxidize waste. However, it will not kill bacteria, so you still need FC. Also, you can use MPS as a shock once a week to help oxidize leftover waste, and reduce Combined Chlorine (spent FC).

    Wow if you made it this far, you did pretty good. It seems like a lot to learn, but it's really not. I'll summarize it here.

    Summary

    Water Balance
    If your CH is much below 100 ppm, raise it to ~150 ppm. Otherwise, make a note of it.
    Adjust your TA to ~50 ppm. Use Baking Soda to raise it (unlikely to be needed), or Acid/Aeration method to lower it. It takes ~8 oz Dry Acid to lower TA by 100 ppm in a 350 Gal Tub. Don't add all at once!
    pH should be between 7.2-7.8. Aerate to Raise pH. Acid to lower it.
    If pH creeps up too much (>8.0), lower TA. If pH is to low, and doesn't raise enough by aeration, raise TA.
    Add ~50 ppm Borate. (Borox/Acid or Gentle Spa)
    Calcium, Baking Soda, Dry Acid and Borates is all you need to balance your water.
    Use PoolMath to calculate exact amounts to add.

    Sanitation
    On a fresh fill use Dichlor until you get to 20-30 ppm CYA. (10 ppm FC = 9 ppm CYA)
    Then switch to Clorox Unscented 6% bleach.
    Never let FC drop to Zero for any length of time. Keep it between 3-6 ppm normally, min of 1 ppm, and shock to 12 ppm once a week.
    Use MPS if needed before hot tub party's and/or once a week to help oxidation. Don't use more than needed, because it's acidic and may lower your TA/pH.
    Dichlor, Bleach and MPS is all you need to keep your tub sanitized.
    Use PoolMath to calculate exact amounts to add.

    Lastly, get a drop test kit such as the Taylor K-2006. Also get FC test strips. They come in handy for a quick FC estimate, during party's etc. The only two things you need to check regularly are FC and pH. Check them everyday and after soaks. Adjust TA as needed. If you have your water well balanced, you'll rarely need to adjust your TA. You'll just be adding chlorine everyday, and after soaks. Shock once a week, and/or after high bather loads. Use MPS if you have party's, and/or don't want to use as much chlorine. Easy as can be, and your tub is always ready.

    I hope that helps you to understand Water Maintenance a little better. It helped me just to write. If I missed anything important please let me know, I'll be happy to add it.

    Happy tubbing!
    Last edited by jblizzle; 06-10-2014 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Update with PoolMath links & header

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    9,208

    Re: How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

    Thanks for posting your summary, Nitro.

    I should point out that the idea of saturating the water with calcium carbonate for a spa is mainly due to the assumption that some non-visible spa parts require such saturation. It was stated by an experienced poster on that forum that certain pump parts exposed to water were ceramic and that they required saturation. Since some ceramics can be cement based (though most are not) I didn't question that need and deferred to experience. This may be something like vinyl pools where such saturation is not really needed, but until proven otherwise having some calcium in the water was helpful anyway to minimize foaming.

    It should also be noted that on that forum the idea of using Dichlor (to get some CYA) and then bleach was met with some hostility. In particular, some users with ozonators found that the rate of pH rise was intolerable even with lowered TA (though we hadn't gotten to trying Borates yet, but that would still require substantial acid addition, just less frequently) and one user who didn't monitor their pH got scaling and I was chewed out by a spa industry person for that. On this Trouble Free Pool forum, such an approach is natural and similar to what is done in pools (except the initial CYA is typically added from pure CYA).

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    25

    Re: How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

    Chem Geek,

    Yeah I read some of your (and others) earlier posts on that site. I just wish I were around back then. I find your method to be perfectly logical, and to work well in practice. Anyone that trys to dispute it, is blind IMO. I don't have an Ozonator, but I find the pH drift to be very minimal, and easily handled.

    I may not be a total expert on this subject, but I'm a quick learner and I do well at documenting.

  4. #4
    Guest

    Re: How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

    If you take the time to read our Pool School section you will find that this is basically all been covered here.
    Note that the Pool Calculator that you refer people to has been a part of TFP since it became available since it was written by our own Forum Admin, JasonLion.

    Welcome to the forum. You might recognize my name from PoolSpaforum but I don't post much over there these days because I got tired of the spam and flame wars that happened there just a bit too often for my tastes.

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    25

    Re: How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

    I wish I would have known about the Pool School two months ago. I wouldn't have had to read all of Chem Geeks post in the other forum.

    As far as the other forum. What's up with all that spam? I've been reading that forum for a couple months, and I never saw that much spam before.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    9,208

    Re: How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

    I did refer to the Pool School every now and then on the other forum, but mostly for the pool posts (at least 7 of them) since we don't have spa-specific Pool School articles, though one could put together that they could use Dichlor to raise CYA first and then use bleach from that point onward. I referred to The Pool Calculator even more and that has links back to TFP. I'm also sensitive to how much I refer to TFP -- I do so every so often, but not so much as to look like an advertisement (which can often get you banned).

    We might consider posting Nitro's summary as a spa guide, though the parts about saturation are covered elsewhere in the pool section. The sanitation approach (in particular, Dichlor until you get to 20-30 ppm CYA and then switch to bleach) is easier in spas since Dichlor dissolves readily and is very easy to do in spas that generally aren't exposed to sunlight (so don't need a lot of CYA immediately). The extra care needed to avoid pH rise (or to deal with it regularly) are analogous to SWG pools though potentially even more dramatic due to the low water volume.

    Also, the chlorine/CYA chart doesn't apply the same way in spas as there was a spate of hot tub itch/rash issues, some with Dichlor-only use after 1-2 months with the net result being that it seemed that higher active chlorine levels may be needed to prevent Pseudomonas aeruginosa from growing, especially in biofilms. I conservatively came up with a 4 ppm FC with 20 ppm CYA guideline (based on 30-50 CT values for 99.99% kill), but perhaps the true limit is more like 4 ppm FC with 50 ppm CYA which would be a little closer to that in pools that prevents algae growth.

    Also, the 7 ppm FC in 350 gallons per person per hour of soaking guideline (at 104F) isn't in the Pool School either. This translates into amounts that are independent of spa volume of 3-1/2 teaspoons of Dichlor or 5 fluid ounces of 6% bleach or 7 teaspoons of MPS non-chlorine shock. These are conservative amounts of chlorine needed to oxidize bather waste (mostly ammonia/urea from sweat/urine). The biggest mistake most spa users make is not using enough oxidizer in their spas, especially if such spas are more heavily used.

    The poolspaforum has had a spate of spam before. I don't know why it happens all of a sudden and what they do to stop it. Since the site crashed and was restored recently, I would assume that something happened that allowed spammers to get through again.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    25

    Re: How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

    Chem Geek,

    I was just kidding about having to read your posts. I enjoy reading them.

    The reason I wrote this guide up was for my benefit as well as others. I find I understand things better if I write them down. Not to mention, 6 months from now I may need a refresher myself. I also find it easier to learn something if everything is one spot where you can read it from start to finish, then have a Summary at the end for a reference. Feel free to post it anywhere you like.

    It's a shame about the poolspaforum and all the spam. They seem to get a lot of traffic over there.

  8. #8
    Administrator JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    34,659

    Re: How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

    It is wonderful to have have this info nicely compiled like this!

    I added a link to this topic in the Further Reading article at Pool School.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    TFP Admin. Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •