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Thread: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

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    Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    Before you jump to any conclusions: I've been BBB for years. I got algae after days of heavy pollen rains one week ago. Since then, I have been constantly testing my water, keeping the FC level at mustard algae numbers, using skimmer socks, brushing the pool, vacuuming out pollen after it settles, and skimming out everything that falls in. It is still green in the deep end. Pollen is still collecting in the vinyl wrinkles, although it is much less (I had big puddles of it). I need the pool to be swim-ready in 24 hours for a pool party (invitations sent before the pollen rain.)

    By keeping FC at mustard algae levels, I mean keeping it at or above the number on the Pool Calculator recommended for my pool, based on my CYA levels. That is 19. I have been testing it in the morning, and it's still above the mustard algae level overnight, so yes, I've been doing it right. I just doubled-down on my 12.5% liquid shock this morning, but it doesn't seem to be having enough effect.

    I have been through this other springs, when we got lots of rain for many days in a row. The root of the problem is the pollen, which falls into the pool like someone is dumping buckets of dust into it. If you visualize someone dumping two buckets of yellow pollen into your pool, that is what I'm dealing with here. The pollen gets mixed into the water, algae starts to grow immediately, and unfortunately getting it out is super-hard. It won't go where I want it to go -- down the floor drains or into the skimmer, to be caught in the socks. I don't have an auto vacuum that can stay on 24/7 and clean it up, so it stays suspended in the water. And that is why I'm considering flocculent.

    I am probably going to add the flocculent. I can't find anything in here about using it without wrecking your chemistry -- just lots of people saying "don't." Yes, I am desperate, because my only other option is to cancel the party.

    Help.
    -----------------------------------
    26000 gal, in-ground, vinyl pool
    Hayward S200 sand filter, 1 skimmer, 2 returns
    BBB since the first month! :-)

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    DaninFLA's Avatar
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    are you passing a OCLT? green water could just been from the pollen is all. its very fine and can be difficult to remove.

    if the problem is pollen, FC really isn't the solution, you need to filter it out. you have a sand filter, so add DE and vacuum like crazy and keep your pump running 24/7. you need a finer filtering agent remove that pollen. I would try and change your pump to draw more from the main drain and less from the skimmer

    you are going to need to get that FC out of your pool if you are having people over.

    is your FC dropping at night??
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    It is your pool, so you have to do what you think is best. Floculant won't wreck your chemistry, but may cloud the water. Depending on the formula, it is designed to clump small floating particles together so they can more easily be filtered or vacuumed.

    But, you have been around a while so you understand that the algae needs to die....

    I would be careful with the amount of chlorine you are using. The Mustard shock level is only meant to be held for 24 hours at the end of a SLAM.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    I agree with Tim, the FC levels it sounds like you are maintaining are damaging your vinyl liner.

    The mere addition of pollen into the pool will NOT cause algae to instantly start to grow if adequate FC level is maintained.

    Are you saying you pass the OCLT? And show no CC?
    I am suspecting that you may have more or a filtration problem than an algae problem.

    Have you ever Deep Cleaned your Sand Filter? After that you may try to Add DE to your Sand Filter
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    If you use the flocculant, make sure you:

    1. Put the filter on Recirculate before adding the floc. You don't want that stuff getting in your filter sand.
    2. Add an inch of water to the pool. You will be vacuuming to waste later.
    3. Vacuum to waste, not to filter.

    Adding DE (or a cellulose equivalent like Jack's Filter Fiber Stuff, which is what I use) is the better, long-term solution. You'll be surprised what a difference it makes. Floc is a panic-mode option, since it often doesn't work, and it is expensive, and there's a danger of it gumming up your filter if you aren't careful.

    But the bigger issue I see: Your current FC level won't come down to safe swimming level on its own by tomorrow. You'll need to run to the pool store (eeek!) to pick up some sodium thiosulfate to reduce FC. Be careful with that stuff, you don't want to put in too much.

    I would reduce FC before flocking (if you use it). I wouldn't be surprised if such high FC rendered the floc ineffective. (That is pure speculation on my part.)
    25000-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster pool, Triton II sand filter
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    It's not holding FC. It is slowly eating through FC -- dropping from 25 to 20 last night, for example. I will stop holding it at mustard algae levels, since that's not the problem, and go back to regular shock level. So far, liner looks fine.. If I stop adding chlorine, I could be back to swimming level tomorrow.

    I have a little CC -- .2ppm this morning.

    Yes, I should have tested more often during the pouring rain/pollen dump. If I had, I would have seen my FC disappear suddenly, even though the water looked clear. We had a normal year last year, so I let myself slip into thinking adding the normal amount of chlorine that I usually add during rainstorms would work.

    Adding DE -- why didn't I think of that? I have some on hand, too. Doing that now ...
    -----------------------------------
    26000 gal, in-ground, vinyl pool
    Hayward S200 sand filter, 1 skimmer, 2 returns
    BBB since the first month! :-)

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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    Also, because my mustard shock level is only 19, I didn't think I was really in danger of causing liner damage. I thought the danger was with levels 20 and up.
    -----------------------------------
    26000 gal, in-ground, vinyl pool
    Hayward S200 sand filter, 1 skimmer, 2 returns
    BBB since the first month! :-)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    The danger is a function of the CYA level ... the import thing to look at is the ratio between the FC and the CYA.

    A FC of 20ppm with 0 CYA, would be EXTREMELY aggressive, while a FC of 20ppm with a CYA of 100ppm would likely be less aggressive than you would find at a public pool.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I would suggest you do the cleaning of the filter in the link I provided before starting to use DE.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    Adding DE will also make the sand filter clog up faster (a good thing) so keep an eye on your pressure, backwash as needed and add more DE after backwashing.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    Re: FC to CYA. Yes, I understand the FC to CYA relationship. My CYA was 30, so my mustard shock level was 19.

    Re: deep cleaning the sand filter. The tutorial says to do this BEFORE the pump is hooked up, or you'll suck a bunch of debris back into your pool. This sounds very bad in my current situation, and I'm not sure how to turn off valves and disconnect plumbing, so I have to skip this step.

    Keeping an eye on pump pressure, and have added DE. How high is too high for pump pressure? My pressure was 15-16 (jumpy needle), and now it's about 17. I added 2/3 cup of DE.
    -----------------------------------
    26000 gal, in-ground, vinyl pool
    Hayward S200 sand filter, 1 skimmer, 2 returns
    BBB since the first month! :-)

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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    That seems about the correct amount. When you add the DE you want the pressure to go up 1psi.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    It's working !!!! I've added DE, turned the pump to draw mainly from the main (bottom) drain, and have been sweeping the pollen toward it. Then I wait a couple hours while the pollen settles, and sweep again. I swear I can see it clearing up! But it could be wishful thinking. Two questions:

    1) How high is too high for psi? Possibly because of the pollen trapped in the sand filter now, it's up to 19psi. It's doing such a great job that I don't want to backwash ... but of course, I don't want to harm my pump either. The water in the return pipes is still very strong, no bubbles, and the pump is not struggling.

    2) How high is too much FC for swimming? It's dropping slowly, but now I'm worried that it won't drop enough by tomorrow once I have all the pollen out. My CC is .2, and will probably go to 0 by tomorrow. Everything else is completely balanced.
    -----------------------------------
    26000 gal, in-ground, vinyl pool
    Hayward S200 sand filter, 1 skimmer, 2 returns
    BBB since the first month! :-)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    1) We recommend backwashing when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure. If you let the pressure go too high, the flow rate drops and so does your filtration.

    2) It needs to be below shock level for your CYA.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    If you need to crash the FC down at the last minute you can use common hydrogen peroxide from any dollar store, it typically sells for about $1 per Qt and lowers FC about at a 1:1 ratio with the rate common 6% bleach raises it. In other words a gallon of 3% hydrogen peroxide will drop FC the same amount a gallon of 6% bleach raises it.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    Another source for hydrogen peroxide is Baquacil Oxidizer which is 27% hydrogen peroxide so you only need 1/9th as much. While more economical than the 3% you can get locally, it would take longer to get so probably not good for your situation, but for others looking to reduce high FC levels it's an option. One gallon of the 27% hydrogen peroxide in 26,000 gallons would reduce the FC by 21 ppm whereas it would take 9 gallons of the 3% hydrogen peroxide to do the same.
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    Thanks everyone. We'll see how it looks tomorrow.

    I should add (for all those with pollen problems) that before I added the DE, the water coming back in from the returns was a yellowish tint. At the time, I thought that maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me. But now, the return water is clear. Hallelujah!
    -----------------------------------
    26000 gal, in-ground, vinyl pool
    Hayward S200 sand filter, 1 skimmer, 2 returns
    BBB since the first month! :-)

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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    Weird development: CYA has gone up. From 30 to 43, from one evening to the next. (I didn't add anything to the water, but the water level did go down a little bit from the backwashing.) I'm wondering if this could be because I've suspended lots of pollen in the water with all the brushing, so I'll read it again tomorrow and see if it's back to 30.
    -----------------------------------
    26000 gal, in-ground, vinyl pool
    Hayward S200 sand filter, 1 skimmer, 2 returns
    BBB since the first month! :-)

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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    Do keep us updated and keep the filtering and DE going, hopefully you can make it there before time for the party.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    Wondering if you are staying up tonight baby-sitting your filter with DE additions. If so, re-add DE after every backwash to raise psi by 1psi. Vacuum to filter if you can. It works better than just brushing as brushing also stirs the pot so to speak. Vacuuming goes straight to the filter. Good luck and let us know!

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    Re: Desperate -- pool party tomorrow. Cancel party? Floc? Yes, I HAVE BEEN SHOCKING!

    Quote Originally Posted by singerteacher View Post
    Weird development: CYA has gone up. From 30 to 43, from one evening to the next. (I didn't add anything to the water, but the water level did go down a little bit from the backwashing.) I'm wondering if this could be because I've suspended lots of pollen in the water with all the brushing, so I'll read it again tomorrow and see if it's back to 30.
    test just isn't super accurate with a +/- of 10 to 15. depending on conditions and how you do the test, that range isn't unheard of for a discrepancy.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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