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Thread: How to keep ph down

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    How to keep ph down

    My PH keep raising every one to two days from 7.4 to 7.8. I do not know if this is normal, but I am dupping about 3 bottles of 7 pound PH minus per week. Is it normal for the PH to raise so fast?
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: How to keep ph down

    Can you post a full set of test results please.

    Your spillover will cause pH to rise due to the aeration. Do you have any other water features?

    Also, how old is the plaster?

    Muratic acid from Lowes would probably be a less expensive option.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: How to keep ph down

    The spillover spa will raise it up as will any kind of aeration-rain, kids playing, cannon balls, etc.

    How is your TA? That can also affect your PH.

    Please post a full set of test results and how you are getting them.

    Once we have a full set of results we can go from there.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    umpalumpajay's Avatar
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    Re: How to keep ph down

    That does seem like a lot, are you running a waterfall? a lot of people get maybe a .1 rise per day - i've had that for months and have to add 16oz of muriatic acid every 4 days. Doing that has slowly lowered my TA and now things actually seem to be stabilizing. I also had a new plaster pool, so that didnt help either. The SWG also adds aeration to the water which will rais ph. I'll second the usage of muriatic acid, might be a cheaper option. So...we need all those answers.

    Water Features
    Age of plaster
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    12000g pool + 1000g spa. Jandy 2.0hp epump + separate Jandy pump for Sheer Descent. Jandy CV Cartridge Filter. Jandy Lxi gas heater. Tropical Breeze PebbleTec. Aqualink. Aquapure SWG. Nature 2. The Pool Cleaner 2x. Taylor K-2005.

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    Re: How to keep ph down

    Test results are as follows:

    FC 3
    PH 7.8
    TA 110
    CH 425
    CYA 70
    Salinity 3000

    I am using a TF-100. The pool store results are similar with the following variation TA is 79 and adjusted TA 53, CYA 80 and CH 325. My plaster is 10 months old, my pool was built August 2014. I opened in April and been keeping my water at 80 degrees using my electric heat pump.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Test results are as follows:

    FC 3
    PH 7.8
    TA 110
    CH 425
    CYA 70
    Salinity 3000

    I am using a TF-100. The pool store results are similar with the following variation TA is 79 and adjusted TA 53, CYA 80 and CH 325. My plaster is 10 months old, my pool was built August 2014. I opened in April and been keeping my water at 80 degrees using my electric pump.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: How to keep ph down

    As others stated, the spill over spa aeration will drive up the pH. Also, the SWG will tend to drive up pH as well.

    What is your TA? If you work to lower that it could either slow the pH rise or stabilize it.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    ned8377's Avatar
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    Re: How to keep ph down

    Yes, I would say lower your TA to about 90.
    True L 45,000 gal Hayward IG vinyl pool. Hayward Tristar 2.40 THP; 1.5 FRHP/1.60 SF. Hayward Model # S310T2 Sand Filter. Aqua Rite T-15. Aqua Comfort 154,000 BTU Heat Pump. TF-100

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    Re: How to keep ph down

    Test results are as follows:

    FC 3
    PH 7.8
    TA 110
    CH 425
    CYA 70
    Salinity 3000

    I am using a TF-100. The pool store results are similar with the following variation TA is 79 and adjusted TA 53, CYA 80 and CH 325. My plaster is 10 months old, my pool was built August 2014. I opened in April and been keeping my water at 80 degrees using my heat pump.



    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    As others stated, the spill over spa aeration will drive up the pH. Also, the SWG will tend to drive up pH as well.

    What is your TA? If you work to lower that it could either slow the pH rise or stabilize it.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Test results are as follows:

    FC 3
    PH 7.8
    TA 110
    CH 425
    CYA 70
    Salinity 3000

    I am using a TF-100. The pool store results are similar with the following variation TA is 79 and adjusted TA 53, CYA 80 and CH 325. My plaster is 10 months old, my pool was built August 2014. I opened in April and been keeping my water at 80 degrees using my heat pump.

    - - - Updated - - -





    Quote Originally Posted by umpalumpajay View Post
    That does seem like a lot, are you running a waterfall? a lot of people get maybe a .1 rise per day - i've had that for months and have to add 16oz of muriatic acid every 4 days. Doing that has slowly lowered my TA and now things actually seem to be stabilizing. I also had a new plaster pool, so that didnt help either. The SWG also adds aeration to the water which will rais ph. I'll second the usage of muriatic acid, might be a cheaper option. So...we need all those answers.

    Water Features
    Age of plaster
    Total Alkalinity
    - - - Updated - - -

    I have been doing that. My understanding is that to lower TA you need to use PH down as well. But no luck yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by ned8377 View Post
    Yes, I would say lower your TA to about 90.
    Last edited by RESISTENCIA13; 06-08-2015 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Posted same text 3 times by mistake
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

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    Re: How to keep ph down

    Plaster is 10 months old. I am trying to avoid the muriatic acid as I want to avoid accidental spills that could damage my pavers and/or my kids accidently spilling while in storage. Thanks for the suggestion.


    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Can you post a full set of test results please.

    Your spillover will cause pH to rise due to the aeration. Do you have any other water features?

    Also, how old is the plaster?

    Muratic acid from Lowes would probably be a less expensive option.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

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    Re: How to keep ph down

    This is the best method to lower the TA, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity.

    Your plaster is still curing some and is adding to the rate of pH rise, but the rate increasing from this should be slowing down all the time.

    Any aeration that can be eliminated or reduced will slow the pH rise also. Is the spa spilling over all the time while the pump runs? If so, that is the reason it is increasing so fast.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    umpalumpajay's Avatar
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    Re: How to keep ph down

    Does ph minus lower TA? Like I said earlier, I was experiencing a .1 rise per day like clockwork and was adding muriatic acid to adjust every 4 days, which has been SLOWLY lowering my TA. Now (6 month old plaster)I'm at TA of 80 and the ph rise seems to REALLY slowing down. Went up .1 in 3 days. So just keep at it. It's a slow process.
    12000g pool + 1000g spa. Jandy 2.0hp epump + separate Jandy pump for Sheer Descent. Jandy CV Cartridge Filter. Jandy Lxi gas heater. Tropical Breeze PebbleTec. Aqualink. Aquapure SWG. Nature 2. The Pool Cleaner 2x. Taylor K-2005.

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    Re: How to keep ph down

    pH minus does lower TA. See the bottom of poolmath to see the effects of adding dry acid.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    umpalumpajay's Avatar
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    Re: How to keep ph down

    well, if thats the case (sorry, ive only ever used muratic acid), then my advice is to just keep at it - it takes a while. whats the ta of your fill water i wonder? that will give you an idea of how far you've come doing what youre doing and how much longer it might take to get it to slow down.
    12000g pool + 1000g spa. Jandy 2.0hp epump + separate Jandy pump for Sheer Descent. Jandy CV Cartridge Filter. Jandy Lxi gas heater. Tropical Breeze PebbleTec. Aqualink. Aquapure SWG. Nature 2. The Pool Cleaner 2x. Taylor K-2005.

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    Re: How to keep ph down

    Yes. The Spa spills over all the time when the pump is running....Wish my salesperson would have told me that during the presentation as my Spa is about 3 feet higher than the pool, I am sure this make it even worse.



    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    This is the best method to lower the TA, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity.

    Your plaster is still curing some and is adding to the rate of pH rise, but the rate increasing from this should be slowing down all the time.

    Any aeration that can be eliminated or reduced will slow the pH rise also. Is the spa spilling over all the time while the pump runs? If so, that is the reason it is increasing so fast.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

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    umpalumpajay's Avatar
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    Re: How to keep ph down

    in my pool, the spillover is sucked out water from the bottom drains of the pool circulating and pumping all to the spa jets to create the spillover. when i do that, the pool returns are off - but there is a valve i can throw to make the returns to the spa switch to the returns in the pool. so i put it about half way to slow down my spilloverl and get a little circulation in the pool. i don't know if thats an option for you but it might help with the aeration if you can do that and still get the look you are going for.
    12000g pool + 1000g spa. Jandy 2.0hp epump + separate Jandy pump for Sheer Descent. Jandy CV Cartridge Filter. Jandy Lxi gas heater. Tropical Breeze PebbleTec. Aqualink. Aquapure SWG. Nature 2. The Pool Cleaner 2x. Taylor K-2005.

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    Re: How to keep ph down

    I suggest to reprogram the automation to run the spa for only about a 1/2 hour each day. It will have plenty of flow for the day during that 1/2 hour and the pH rise will dramatically slow down.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
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    umpalumpajay's Avatar
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    Re: How to keep ph down

    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    I suggest to reprogram the automation to run the spa for only about a 1/2 hour each day. It will have plenty of flow for the day during that 1/2 hour and the pH rise will dramatically slow down.
    this is interesting advice, never really thought about turning spa mode on during the day for even a short time to clean the spa out. sweeping it does no good since the bottom spa drains dont work during the pool filtering time - good idea.
    12000g pool + 1000g spa. Jandy 2.0hp epump + separate Jandy pump for Sheer Descent. Jandy CV Cartridge Filter. Jandy Lxi gas heater. Tropical Breeze PebbleTec. Aqualink. Aquapure SWG. Nature 2. The Pool Cleaner 2x. Taylor K-2005.

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    Re: How to keep ph down

    I only have one pump for both the spa and pool. Can this be done with only one pump?



    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    I suggest to reprogram the automation to run the spa for only about a 1/2 hour each day. It will have plenty of flow for the day during that 1/2 hour and the pH rise will dramatically slow down.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

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    Re: How to keep ph down

    Yes it can.

    For a half hour a day you will want the pool to operate as it is now with flow to the pool and spa. For the rest of the day you need to close the spa return valve and make sure the pool return valve is open. If it is programmed to suck from the spa that valve will need to be closed, but I'm thinking that it only sucks from the spa while in spa mode.

    Basically the valves need to be opposite of when running in spa mode, you will be in pool mode.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: How to keep ph down

    Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    Yes it can.

    For a half hour a day you will want the pool to operate as it is now with flow to the pool and spa. For the rest of the day you need to close the spa return valve and make sure the pool return valve is open. If it is programmed to suck from the spa that valve will need to be closed, but I'm thinking that it only sucks from the spa while in spa mode.

    Basically the valves need to be opposite of when running in spa mode, you will be in pool mode.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

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