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Thread: Bonding Lug Wire

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    twotix's Avatar
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    Bonding Lug Wire

    Does this look like the bonding wire that should be connected to my pool pump? It's green like a ground and thick (perhaps 8 gauge) and is sticking up on the exterior about 12 feet from the pump. Thanks.
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    14' X 28' Gunite Pool. Constructed 1990, 12k Gallons. Single Drain with Built-In Caretaker System.Pentair IntelliFlo VF Pump (011012, Installed 2006). Pentair Quad DE Filter 80(Installed 2007). Both run year round in FL.

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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Nope, because a bonding wire should not be insulated and should be bare copper. Of course always possible they did it wrong ....
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    is that wire a single strand or multi strand? do you have a gas line any where near it?
    AG 24' round 15k gal
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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Nope, because a bonding wire should not be insulated and should be bare copper. Of course always possible they did it wrong ....
    Is that determined by local code?

    Every pool Ive been around in my area (including my own) has the bonding wire to the pump coming out of the ground as green insulated copper.

    Or maybe its bare under ground and at some point they spliced to insulated for protection from evil string trimmers?
    22K IG vinyl, .5HP Northstar pump, S244T filter, AutoPilot Digital w/SC-48 cell

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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisexv6 View Post
    Is that determined by local code?

    Every pool Ive been around in my area (including my own) has the bonding wire to the pump coming out of the ground as green insulated copper.

    Or maybe its bare under ground and at some point they spliced to insulated for protection from evil string trimmers?
    While a local jurisdiction can modify the code, they usually don't. Bonding requirements are part of the National Electrical Code.
    680.23
    (C) Common Bonding Grid. The metallic parts of a pool, outdoor spa or hot tub specified in 680.26(B) shall be electrically bonded to a common bonding grid by a solid conductor not smaller than 8 AWG. The termination of the bonding conductor shall be made by exothermic welding, or clamps labeled (listed) as being suitable for the purpose. The common bonding grid can consist of any of the following: Figure 680-20 un680-20 680-26C.cdr
    (1) The structural reinforcing steel of the concrete pool, outdoor spa or hot tub that is secured by steel tie-wires.
    (2) The wall of a bolted or welded metal pool.
    (3) A solid copper conductor, insulated, covered or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG
    So, it appears insulated is acceptable, but not stranded.

    The wire in the photo appears to be stranded wire so I'm doubting it is part of the bonding grid.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Ahh that makes more sense.

    Solid only also makes sense vs stranded.
    22K IG vinyl, .5HP Northstar pump, S244T filter, AutoPilot Digital w/SC-48 cell

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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Interesting ... Insulated makes no sense to me as that defeats the purpose as far as ground contact.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Interesting ... Insulated makes no sense to me as that defeats the purpose as far as ground contact.
    I agree. I had a long explanation written as to why bare copper is better when I looked it up......
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Bond wires can be insulated as long as they are not part of the perimeter grid. They can be connected to the grid to bond equipment It is very unusual as most pool installers/electricians won't carry it separate for that purpose.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by danpik View Post
    Bond wires can be insulated as long as they are not part of the perimeter grid. They can be connected to the grid to bond equipment It is very unusual as most pool installers/electricians won't carry it separate for that purpose.
    yea, I have never seen insulated wires used, thus my confusion. When in doubt, check the NEC.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    In your picture, just to the right and above the ground wire is what looks like a dark hole or broken out piece of your aluminum screen framing. Is it possible there was a ground or bonding connection to the structure that tore out, and the only thing that remains is the wire?
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Regardless of what is going on ... I would connect it to the bonding system I think.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Nope, because a bonding wire should not be insulated and should be bare copper. Of course always possible they did it wrong ....
    Pool was built in 1990. This wire was long and extended over to the pool pump but was hit by the trimmer so it was cut way back. It is a solid wire.Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gtemkin View Post
    In your picture, just to the right and above the ground wire is what looks like a dark hole or broken out piece of your aluminum screen framing. Is it possible there was a ground or bonding connection to the structure that tore out, and the only thing that remains is the wire?
    Yes as I recall that solid wire extended all the way to the pump and was entangled in a trimmer so was cut all the way back. Thx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Regardless of what is going on ... I would connect it to the bonding system I think.
    Think you are correct! Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by danpik View Post
    Bond wires can be insulated as long as they are not part of the perimeter grid. They can be connected to the grid to bond equipment It is very unusual as most pool installers/electricians won't carry it separate for that purpose.
    Thanks for the input! That solid wire extended all the way to the pump but kept getting caught in the trimmer so was cut way back so I think it is the bonding wire.
    14' X 28' Gunite Pool. Constructed 1990, 12k Gallons. Single Drain with Built-In Caretaker System.Pentair IntelliFlo VF Pump (011012, Installed 2006). Pentair Quad DE Filter 80(Installed 2007). Both run year round in FL.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Hook it back up to the pump.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Hi twotix,

    I'm kinda confused with your answers.

    To the suggestion that it might have been a connection to your screening frame, you said yes, but then you said it went over to the pump? Are you saying it did connect to the frame and then, from there, continued onto the pump or did it bypass the screen and go right to the pump?

    You mentioned the wire was 12 feet from the pump in your initial post, but didn't say you knew it previously connected to the pump. Am I understanding correctly that you now remember it connected to the pump. In your original post it sounded like you weren't sure where it was meant to go?

    Thanks for clarifying.
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Whatever you do make sure the bonding wire is continuous. Don't splice......
    20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp autopilot dig-220 swg w/RC42 cell (42,000), pg2000 fiber optic lights
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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Actually I was wrong sometimes inspectors allow splicing to lugs. I made mine continuous
    20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp autopilot dig-220 swg w/RC42 cell (42,000), pg2000 fiber optic lights
    hayward sand filter(medium is echoglass)
    Blue diamond robot cleaner

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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Allowable by code or not I have never seen an insulated conductor used for a bonding grid. Is it possible that they used that to bond the screen house frame to the bonding grid???


    30x20 vinyl IG, Hayward SD60 with Pentair Dynamo 340219 2HP pump, Compupool CPSC24 SWG, Hayward H200FDN heater. APC automatic pool cover.
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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by gtemkin View Post
    Hi twotix,

    I'm kinda confused with your answers.
    Sorry for the confusion. You and me both...lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by gtemkin View Post
    To the suggestion that it might have been a connection to your screening frame, you said yes, but then you said it went over to the pump? Are you saying it did connect to the frame and then, from there, continued onto the pump or did it bypass the screen and go right to the pump?
    A pool company installed my Intelliflo VF in 2006 but didn't connect a bonding wire. My Intellflo VFD fried 2 weeks ago and this is when I discovered there was no bonding wire connected to the lug when I removed the pump motor assembly. I didn't know what a bonding wire was quite frankly until this discovery. I recall from years ago a long green wire coming from the ground just outside of my enclosure that was always getting in the way of the trimmer so I cut it off so you see the end piece coming from the ground. I thought maybe it had to do with my solar panels that blew off from Hurricane Charley in 2004. I also capped the solar pipes since the panels were gone.

    This wire was several feet long and I think snaked along the house wall towards the pump but was not connected to my Intellifo which was installed in 2006.. I don't recall if it was ever connected to the pool frame.




    Quote Originally Posted by gtemkin View Post
    You mentioned the wire was 12 feet from the pump in your initial post, but didn't say you knew it previously connected to the pump.
    My StaRite pump blew out in 2006 so a pool company replaced it with an Intelliflo. I don't know if that wire was connected to the StaRite but it was not connected to the Intelliflo as I discovered two weeks ago when it died. Until then, I had never heard of a bonding wire.
    Quote Originally Posted by gtemkin View Post
    Am I understanding correctly that you now remember it connected to the pump.
    I don't recall it ever being connected to my StaRite or Intelliflo pumps or even the pool frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by gtemkin View Post
    In your original post it sounded like you weren't sure where it was meant to go?
    Correct. It is all new to me. BTW...another poster said not to splice on a bonding wire extension wire if this was it. Do you concur? If that is the case, it sounds like a lost cause without extensive renovation.
    Quote Originally Posted by gtemkin View Post
    Thanks for clarifying.
    You are welcome.I am several french fries short of a Happy Meal when it comes to pool related items so I appreciate your help! Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethany View Post
    Whatever you do make sure the bonding wire is continuous. Don't splice......
    I see you updated and splicing is allowed it seems. Thx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pbhound View Post
    is that wire a single strand or multi strand? do you have a gas line any where near it?
    Single solid wire. No gas anywhere. Pretty much all electric down here in FL. Thx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Hook it back up to the pump.
    So you suggest splicing an 8 guage wire onto to it and extending it to the pump? Some are indicating it isn't spliceable.Thx.
    Last edited by twotix; 06-07-2015 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Attempted to add a picture
    14' X 28' Gunite Pool. Constructed 1990, 12k Gallons. Single Drain with Built-In Caretaker System.Pentair IntelliFlo VF Pump (011012, Installed 2006). Pentair Quad DE Filter 80(Installed 2007). Both run year round in FL.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Bonding Lug Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by ethany View Post
    Actually I was wrong sometimes inspectors allow splicing to lugs. I made mine continuous
    to splice you should not use a twist loc connector, but a split bolt rated for direct burial.

    Split Bolt Connectors | Copper Split Bolts | ElecDirect
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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