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Thread: Help for a new pool owner

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    Help for a new pool owner

    So...last year we had an in ground pool built by Family Leisure. They installed a cartridge filter system and a perma salt system. We don't use chlorine and it's not a salt generator, it uses minerals, copper and silver to maintain the pool.

    This year was our first time opening the pool and it's been a disaster! When we removed the cover a bunch of leaves and dirt from the cover poured into the water....we have been fishing leaves out for 4 weeks! All of the leaves are gone now so we bought the chemical package for our pool, $300 and began putting in the chemicals. Within a couple of days the water was so cloudy we couldn't see the bottom of the pool. $500 in chemicals later, we poured in Super Floc and shut off the pump. The water cleared up overnight, and everything sank to the bottom of the pool. But as soon as we turned on the pump to vacuum it out the water became cloudy again and we can't see the bottom. I have been cleaning the filter cartridge every day to make sure it doesn't clog up. Whenever we put the hose into the skimmer to vacuum, it loses suction after a few minutes and takes 10-15 minutes to get back to pumping normal.

    I have called 4 different pool companies and all have told me to get rid of the cartridge filter and perma salt system and purchase a chlorine system and sand filter. Estimate are all over $1,000 to do this...

    Is there anyone on here that has had success with a combination of perma salt and cartridge filters? If so, do you have any suggestions for getting this thing going so we can get some use out of the pool this summer!!??

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    Search the forum and you will find many thread explaining why we do NOT endorse the PermaSalt system ... or any metal-adding systems.

    It is also not an EPA approved sanitizer ... so you have to use chlorine anyway.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    Welcome to TFP!

    This is how we maintain pools here and we would be happy to teach you. Read up and see what you think.

    Get one of the Recommended Test Kits, I use the TF100 from tftestkits.net.

    When you get it give us some test results and get ready to SLAM Your Pool to clear up all the cloudiness and algae.

    Here are some of my fave Pool School articles that cover routine pool chemistry and care.
    TFPC for Beginners
    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry

    Here are the Recommended Levels for your pool.
    Here are the Recommended Pool Chemicals and how to add them.
    Use PoolMath to figure out how much to add.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    April's Avatar
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    Re: Help for a new pool owner


    Listen to the experts here! They won't steer you wrong!
    18ft Round AG, Vinyl, 100LB Pentair Sand Filter, 1HP, June 2012, TF-100 w/SpeedStir

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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    Does your pump/filter have a valve that allows you to vacuum to waste? And does it have a recirculate option? When using floc, it is best to have the valve set to recirculate to avoid gumming up your filter, and then set to waste when vacuuming, so, again, it doesn't gum up your filter, and so it doesn't stir things up again while you try to vacuum. If your filter doesn't have those options, it is best to avoid using flocculant. We generally tell people to avoid it, because it is rarely needed and a waste of money.

    As mentioned above, the first investment you need to make is in one of the Recommended Test Kits. It will save you hundreds of dollars per year, because you will no longer be at the mercy of the pool store. In your case, the TF100 with XL option is probably the best option, since it contains extra reagents for testing free chlorine, which you will need. If you get one of the others, order refills of the two free-chlorine reagents at the time you place your order. (The DPD powder R-0870, and the drops R-0871.)

    While you are waiting for the test kit to arrive, take another sample of water to the pool store and have them test it. We are looking for metals added by your sanitization system, and by any algaecides that that the pool store may have pushed on you. Don't buy anything that the pool store tries to sell you. Just take your test report, thank them, and leave. The reason we want to know about metals is they can stain your brand new pool.

    Don't lose hope! You came to the right place!
    25000-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster pool, Triton II sand filter
    750-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster spa, cartridge filter
    Volunteer pool caretaker for my condominium complex

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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    Oh, yeah, once we get your pool looking good, the cartridge filter will be fine. But you will be cleaning your cartridge often during the process of getting your pool in order.

    But, as mentioned above, we will recommend that you get rid of the PermaSalt system. It can be effective against algae, but not bacteria and parasites. And the added minerals can cause staining if the pool's pH gets out of whack, and the copper can turn blond hair green.

    In the short term, you can just hand-feed your pool with liquid chlorine. It is easy, and it just takes a couple minutes a day to test your pool water and add the appropriate amount of chlorine. It is actually a very satisfying task, when you see how beautifully clear your water is each time you go out to do your daily maintenance.

    Eventually, if you don't like spending a couple minutes a day (or every other day) at your pool, you can look into an automation system. But we can cross that bridge if and when we come to it....
    25000-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster pool, Triton II sand filter
    750-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster spa, cartridge filter
    Volunteer pool caretaker for my condominium complex

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    $800??

    That would keep me running for almost 3 years, 365 days a year!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    I wish you had found the forum before you invested in your equipment! Keep reading and see if the methods outlined here make sense to you. Years and years ago, I had to make a major switch in philosophy and ever since, my pool has been perfect.

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    Re: Help for a new pool owner



    Ok, so here's what I have. Not a good set of pictures considering I am a photographer...but it's all I have on my phone at the moment!

    Every time I go to Leslie's pools (they are the closest to me..) they tell me that chemically, my pool is perfect, but there is zero chlorine in it.

    I have had the permasalt system running for 2 months last year and 4 weeks this year. I am very concerned that the permasalt.com website no longer exists, and that I can find very little information about it.

    If I were to switch to a chlorine system, would I just need to buy an automatic chlorinator, remove the permasalt ionizer and install the chlorinator? Do I need to get a different pump?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Ok, so here's what I have. Not a good set of pictures considering I am a photographer...but it's all I have on my phone at the moment!

    Every time I go to Leslie's pools (they are the closest to me..) they tell me that chemically, my pool is perfect, but there is zero chlorine in it.

    I have had the permasalt system running for 2 months last year and 4 weeks this year. I am very concerned that the permasalt.com website no longer exists, and that I can find very little information about it.

    If I were to switch to a chlorine system, would I just need to buy an automatic chlorinator, remove the permasalt ionizer and install the chlorinator? Do I need to get a different pump?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not sure what happened with the double post there...?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    Yes, you would just take the permasalt thing out. My worry is that might be enough metals in the water to warrant replacing a large portion of your water.

    If you reeeeally want to do automatic chlorination, there are SaltWater Chlorine Generators (SWGCs) which use electricity to generate chlorine from salt in the water (but you'd need to add salt, so you'd want to check with your pool builder to make sure the salt won't degrade the pool or deck), stenner pumps and "the liquidator" for liquid chlorine, and others. Just stay away from the tablet chlorinators. They add Cyanuric Acid (CYA) as well as chlorine, and the CYA builds up over time, reducing the effectiveness of the chlorine, and causing problems similar to what you're having now.

    As mentioned above, take some time to read through Pool School, using the menu at the left of that page go through all the articles. It's a bit of a learning curve, and might require several re-readings, but once you understand how everything works together, managing your pool becomes really easy. And inexpensive. Startlingly inexpensive. Did I mention inexpensive?
    25000-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster pool, Triton II sand filter
    750-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster spa, cartridge filter
    Volunteer pool caretaker for my condominium complex

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    I'm so confused! For everyone that suggests one thing, there is someone telling me to stay away from it! We went with the permasalt system because everyone said to stay away from salt water pools, only one local builder pushed a salt water pool, others said they would only build them if the customer insisted on it!

    Several of the local builders offered various versions of ionizers, usually under their own brand name.

    All of the other builders offered some form of a tablet style chlorinator..

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    Metals have a high risk of problems with little gain.

    Chlorine is the best sanitizer. There are only a few ways to add it to the water. Tablets have bad side effects. Leaving only liquid chlorine or a salt water system as viable options.

    We only discuss the facts based on good science and accurate chemistry. We are not out to make a profit off you and no one has bought us off to sell you a product.

    Do some research and you will see ... But don't trust the marketing B.S. that all the products put out there.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    Many people have had bad experiences with saltwater pools because the salt water eroded the natural stone that they used for their coping (the brickwork around the edge of the pool) and pool deck. But as long as the building materials were chosen wisely, a saltwater pool is a fantastic, low-maintenance choice. That was why I suggested checking with your pool builder to see if salt would harm the pool's surface and surroundings. People who blindly say you should avoid saltwater pools are being rather foolish, or they are using FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) to promote their own agenda.

    Many people have had bad experiences with chlorine, primarily because they didn't understand the relationship between Chlorine and CYA, and so they are using chlorine levels that are far too high (irritating to eyes and skin, damaging hair, bleaching swimsuits) or far too low (unsanitary, allowing algae growth). And these bad experiences led to the market demand for other options, like ionizers.

    But many, many people have had terrible experiences with ionizers, due to all the problems with staining, green hair, and especially inadequate of sterilization of the water. Does that mean you absolutely shouldn't use them? Well.... If you look at all the problems, and weigh that with the limited benefits, and the fact that you still have to add chlorine as a sterilizer anyway, then... It's up to the individuals to make up their own minds.

    Simply understanding the relationship between Chlorine and CYA avoids the problems that make people consider other options. Good old liquid chlorine ends up being the simplest, cheapest, safest, and most effective choice. Until you want to automate it, but even that isn't a big deal.
    25000-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster pool, Triton II sand filter
    750-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster spa, cartridge filter
    Volunteer pool caretaker for my condominium complex

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    Hopefully we don't sound like we're spreading our own FUD. We just have beautiful pools that take minimal effort, and we hate to see people having trouble with their pools simply because they were given the wrong guidance by people making large profits off of misinformation.
    25000-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster pool, Triton II sand filter
    750-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster spa, cartridge filter
    Volunteer pool caretaker for my condominium complex

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    Hello! You have come to the right place to get your pool clear and it is CHEAP!

    The advice is free and based on science. We do not have anything to gain from telling you the best way to keep your pool clear and clean.

    One thing you can do to help yourself is to pick one place/group/place to listen to.

    There are thousands of people on here that have used TFP to get and keep their pools clear.

    Let us know if there is anything else we can help you with.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    jjwalker's Avatar
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    Re: Help for a new pool owner

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post

    There are thousands of people on here that have used TFP to get and keep their pools clear.



    Kim
    true dat
    18x36 vinyl / sport pool 5.5' deep / 1.5hp Tri-Star 2spd / Hayward c3030 325 sqft cartridge / ~15k gal / TF100

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