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Thread: TF-100 replacement chemicals

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    TF-100 replacement chemicals

    I have a question regarding a jump in TA using 2014 chemicals and 2015 chemicals. I received replacement chemicals for my TF-100 kit yesterday. I ran the the usual tests today: TC,FC,CC,TA,pH with the new chemicals.

    New chemicals readings:
    TC: 5.0
    FC: 0
    CC: 5.0
    TA: 170
    pH: 7.2

    I was surprised at the jump in the TA. I then ran the same tests using the same sample water I used for the new chemical readings.

    Old chemicals readings:
    TC: 3.5
    FC: 0
    CC: 3.5
    TA: 100
    pH: 7.3

    Out of frustration I used a 5 test strip and the TA indication favored the old chemical reading of about 100.

    Is there a problem with the new chemicals, namely R-0007, R-0008, and R-0009?

    Please advise.

    15 foot round above pool
    6300 gal
    Hayward EC-40 DE filter pump
    Last edited by joe39don; 06-05-2015 at 12:29 PM. Reason: added CC: 5.0 to post

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Welcome to TFP!

    While I can't explain the old readings, the problem is with the old reagents most likely. This is assuming the new ones are fresher of course. Where did you purchase the new ones?
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    This sounds like a known problem. I will quote Duraleigh from an archived post:

    Yes, the drop size matters....you are being very observant and that's a good thing!

    Here's the deal (and this ONLY applies to R-0009....none of the other reagents)......

    When you buy very fresh R-0009, it is often possible for a static charge to develop between the liquid and the dropper tip.

    When this occurs, the drop (instead of falling off the dropper tip from gravity) actually "jumps" off the tip before it is fully formed and the subsequent drops size is smaller than a normal drop.

    The end result is your TA test will read high.

    Wiping the tip with a damp cloth or paper towel in between drops always eliminates this issue so I cannot understand why that didn't correct your problem.

    The issue always goes away after just a few weeks at most so it only occurs when your R-0009 is very new and fresh.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_B View Post
    Welcome to TFP!

    While I can't explain the old readings, the problem is with the old reagents most likely. This is assuming the new ones are fresher of course. Where did you purchase the new ones?
    The chemicals wer purchased from TFTestkits. These replace the chemicals in my TF-100 test kit that I purchased last year.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    I agree with Donldson on this one ... static in the R009 TA bottle.
    Did you wipe the tip after each drop?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    I agree with Donldson on this one ... static in the R009 TA bottle.
    Did you wipe the tip after each drop?
    No. As Donaldson pointed out in his above post, I did not think this was important since I didn't do that with my 2014 TFTest kit chemicals. I will try this method ad see what the results are. It seems that the only abberation is with the TA chems, especially R-0009. I will post my results later. Thanks for all the advice I received from the above posters.
    15 foot round vinyl above ground pool
    6300 gallon
    EC-40 Hayward DE filter PowerFlo XL pump
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    And that TA test is the ONLY one that is affected by the static problem. My new kit did the same thing ... the R-0009 was practically jumping off the tip so the drops were too small.

    The static will go away after a few tests.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    I just finished doing my tests again.

    New readings:
    FC: 5.0
    CC: 0
    TC: 5.0
    TA: 130
    pH: 7.3

    The TC reading did lower from 170 to 130 after wiping the tip of the R-0009 bottle after each drop. All other values remained the same.

    So my problem was not following the plastic instructions card supplied with the TF-100 kit where it specifically says to wipe the tip of the R-009 bottle after each drop.

    Anyway, I have a better feeling about these chemicals after proving to myself that after all fails, read the instructions.

    Thanks, again, for all your help.
    15 foot round vinyl above ground pool
    6300 gallon
    EC-40 Hayward DE filter PowerFlo XL pump
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Ok good. I never think about that R0009 deal. Never had it happen, but I do know it can, and that its a problem on occasion.
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Well, I have always maintained that instructions are for sissies, anyway!

    Wish I could predict the exact time that will go away but it doesn't take long. It's a nuisance and many forget it but at least it lets you know the reagents are VERY fresh.

    Another tip about drops and this applies to EVERY drop test in the kit. Always hold the dropper tip perfectly vertical. You want the drop to reach it's maximum size before falling off the tip. It's not a huge deal but I seem to get a better test when I am careful with this.
    Dave S.
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Well, I have always maintained that instructions are for sissies, anyway!

    Wish I could predict the exact time that will go away but it doesn't take long. It's a nuisance and many forget it but at least it lets you know the reagents are VERY fresh.

    Another tip about drops and this applies to EVERY drop test in the kit. Always hold the dropper tip perfectly vertical. You want the drop to reach it's maximum size before falling off the tip. It's not a huge deal but I seem to get a better test when I am careful with this.
    I think that's a great point. If you hold the dropper of any kind anyway horizontal you run the risk of it sticking to the side and not dropping off. Vertical is the way to go for sure.
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Just as an aside for anyone putting Boric Acid into your pool. I bought 15 pounds of 100% Boric Acid from Tranquility Products through Amazon.com at an average cost of $3 a pound. What arrived was not granular but powder form. To get around the BA floating on the top of the water, I divided the lot into 5 pound portions and put it in a bucket and added water slowly to soak the BA. I used a stick to swirl it around and slowly added it directly to the skimmer, looking to make sure it didn't cake up the filter. It took about an hour to complete the task but I got it all in without blocking the filter. An hour later I checked my pH and it went from 7.3 to 7.2. I'll wait until tomorrow to check the boron using LaMotte Boron strips. I know other posters encountered this problm so I'm sharing how I got around this problem. Also, while adding water to the BA in the bucket, not all of it dissolved right away. I added to the fillter what was suspended in water and repeated adding water and adding to the pool until all the BA was in. It took about 5 water refreshes in the bucket to get each 5 pound portion in the pool. Skimmer prressure barely budged.
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Based on what chem geek just posted in another thread, dudadiesel is cheaper for boric acid.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Quote Originally Posted by joe39don View Post
    Just as an aside for anyone putting Boric Acid into your pool. I bought 15 pounds of 100% Boric Acid from Tranquility Products through Amazon.com at an average cost of $3 a pound. What arrived was not granular but powder form. To get around the BA floating on the top of the water, I divided the lot into 5 pound portions and put it in a bucket and added water slowly to soak the BA. I used a stick to swirl it around and slowly added it directly to the skimmer, looking to make sure it didn't cake up the filter. It took about an hour to complete the task but I got it all in without blocking the filter. An hour later I checked my pH and it went from 7.3 to 7.2. I'll wait until tomorrow to check the boron using LaMotte Boron strips. I know other posters encountered this problm so I'm sharing how I got around this problem. Also, while adding water to the BA in the bucket, not all of it dissolved right away. I added to the fillter what was suspended in water and repeated adding water and adding to the pool until all the BA was in. It took about 5 water refreshes in the bucket to get each 5 pound portion in the pool. Skimmer prressure barely budged.
    I'm surprised adding water to BA in a bucket worked for you. I tried that one time and the BA instantly turned into a big solid rock! Ever since then I always broadcast it in the pool. Any BA that floats on the surface dissolves pretty quickly (with the water circulating).

    I've read many times on PF (not sure about here) that BA should be added to the skimmer, but after what I experienced I'm too scared to take a chance of clogging up the skimmer/pipes.
    20k IG vinyl liner/Aqua Rite SWCG, T-15 cell/Hayward Pro Grid 6020 DE filter/Polaris 280 with booster pump/Hayward Superpump 1 hp/city water/pool installed March 2004

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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Off topic but since we are talking about samples. What is the amount of water and solution needed in the CYA bottle? Wondering just incase my sticker falls off.

    Wayne
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Quote Originally Posted by Z7What View Post
    Off topic but since we are talking about samples. What is the amount of water and solution needed in the CYA bottle? Wondering just incase my sticker falls off.

    Wayne
    It just needs to be a 50/50 mix of water and solution.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    It just needs to be a 50/50 mix of water and solution.
    So per the instructions its says to fill with pool water to the bottom of the sticker. How many ml is it to get to the bottom of the sticker?

    Wayne
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Pretty sure it is 15 ml if I remember correctly.
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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    Fill the bottle to the bottom of the sticker and then pour that in to one of the testing cylinders to measure it.

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    Re: TF-100 replacement chemicals

    It should be 15 ml to the bottom of the sticker and 15 ml from there to the line on the sticker.
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