Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Too Many Bends?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    7

    Too Many Bends?

    Hello forum members. I am new to this forum. I apologize if this in not the correct location for this post. I am new to pools, having bought a house with a pool just short of a year ago. It has been an interesting adventure learning all the ins and outs of pool ownership and everything that comes with it.

    This past weekend I had a leaking skimmer replaced by a pool leak repair company. Matching up the plumbing of the new skimmer to the existing lines was difficult for the repair company. As a result, they added four (4) additional 90 degree bends in the skimmer return line right at the skimmer.

    Since the repair, my variable speed pump has failed on loss of prime a few times during the week with no change to the speed setting from before the replacement. In addition, I have not been able to get enough pressure to run the pool cleaner. I used the gauge supplied by the pool cleaner manufacturer to confirm/set the proper speed of the pump for the right pressure required for the cleaner. The original speed I used, before the skimmer replacement, does not provide enough pressure, based on the gauge reading. I adjusted the speed of the pump in 200 rpm steps testing at each step until I was near full speed and still could not get enough pressure.

    I am concerned that the extra bends are creating too much restrictions in the plumbing to allow the system to work properly.

    I would appreciate any help/advise that anyone may have regarding adding 90 degree bends to a system and/or the troubleshooting of the system.

    Thank you in advance.

    -Frank

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,947

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Hi Frank! That is certainly possible (restrictions). Less bends is typically better, and you seem to have some valid "before & after" indications. Do you know what size the plumbing is? Can you post a pic for everyone to evaluate?

    Also Frank, please consider modifying your "Signature" setting, located in your profile, to include all of your pool information. It will help for later. Oh, and again .... welcome!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,947

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Hey Frank. Admin may merge your two posts:
    Too Many Bends?

    But if they do, they will probably let you know. More to follow on your question.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    7

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Thanks. Admin can delete. This was a duplicate post. I had an issue when posting the first and could not confirm whether the first post was submitted or not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    Hi Frank! That is certainly possible (restrictions). Less bends is typically better, and you seem to have some valid "before & after" indications. Do you know what size the plumbing is? Can you post a pic for everyone to evaluate?

    Also Frank, please consider modifying your "Signature" setting, located in your profile, to include all of your pool information. It will help for later. Oh, and again .... welcome!

    The plumbing is 2". I did not take any pictures before they poured the concrete around the skimmer. I can probably draw up a sketch of what I saw.

    I will look into modifying my signature.

    Thanks for the response.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    4 extra 90s should not cause the amount of added head loss that you seem to be indicating.

    Do you have air in the pump?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    7

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    4 extra 90s should not cause the amount of added head loss that you seem to be indicating.

    Do you have air in the pump?

    Thanks for the response. I am glad to hear that the extra 90's should not effect the system too much. I'm an electrical engineer by trade, and only had a few mechanical classes while in school. So I mostly only understand the theory behind the turbulence and effect on head that turns will cause. Not any practical experience.

    There should not have been any air in the pump. Is there a method you recommend to confirm/check for air in the pump? We did not make and plumbing changes at or near the pump and pool equipment.

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Just look through the pump lid and see if there is air or turbulence.
    My only thought was that one of the new joints was allowing air to be pulled in and thus you were not keeping a good prime.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,947

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Frank, since I don't see what type of equipment you have, there could be a different answer to your question about purging air. For example, my cartridge filter housing has a purge valve at the top to bleed air out of the system. Your may be different. Also, if I suspect a loss in prime due to excessive air, I usually look through the pump basket (clear) lid to see if there is any air trapped in there before going to the pump. If there is, then you should consider reviewing the page on SUCTION SIDE AIR LEAKS. Perhaps that will help you resolve any suspected air issues.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    7

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Thanks for the reply. I have reached out the repair techs. Hopefully, they will be able to stop by to check out the system, including any failed joints.
    ~16k gallon in-ground pool & spa, Hayward AquaLogic AQL-PS-4 w/T Cell-15, Hayward Ecostar Variable Speed Pump,
    Pentair Clean & Clear Plus CCP420 Cartridge Filter, Pentair MiniMax NT Heater, Hayward Pool Vac XL

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,947

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Best of luck to you!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    7

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Thanks for all the help.

    I edited my signature. So hopefully it will begin to show soon. In the mean time, my filter has a bleed valve, which I use to purge the air. I purged the air during my testing, hoping that would solve it. Is it typical that the filter will have air that will require purging every day between pump cycles? Every time I check the purge valve (maybe two or three times a month) it requires air to be purged.

    The pump is a Hayward Ecostar. I usually see the water circulating across the clear lid while it is running. I assume air would be bubbles at the top of the lid.

    I will review the suction side air leaks page you suggested. Thanks
    ~16k gallon in-ground pool & spa, Hayward AquaLogic AQL-PS-4 w/T Cell-15, Hayward Ecostar Variable Speed Pump,
    Pentair Clean & Clear Plus CCP420 Cartridge Filter, Pentair MiniMax NT Heater, Hayward Pool Vac XL

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    No that is not typical. You should only have to bleed air when you open the system.

    If you keep building up air, you have a suction leak.

    Note on a VS pump running at low speed, it is normal for a small air bubble to appear in the pump lid, but that will not cause accumulation in the filter.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    7

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Thanks. I thought having air in the filter every time I opened the purge valve was odd. I will try to ask the techs to check for a suction leak.
    ~16k gallon in-ground pool & spa, Hayward AquaLogic AQL-PS-4 w/T Cell-15, Hayward Ecostar Variable Speed Pump,
    Pentair Clean & Clear Plus CCP420 Cartridge Filter, Pentair MiniMax NT Heater, Hayward Pool Vac XL

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    7

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    All,

    Thank you for your help. It turns out that my 10+ year old valves were past due for an o-ring replacement job. After replacing the o-rings, all components work better than they every have. I'm guessing that during the skimmer replacement the seals on the values got even worse from being moved, making an existing issue more noticeable. Now there is no visible air in the pump basket. The pool cleaner works perfectly. I even had to turn down the speed for the cleaner, based on the gauge readings. Now the filter has no air. I think I may have doubled its capacity, because previously the water level was only about halfway up the cartridge.

    I am learning more about the pool system and its upkeep every day.
    ~16k gallon in-ground pool & spa, Hayward AquaLogic AQL-PS-4 w/T Cell-15, Hayward Ecostar Variable Speed Pump,
    Pentair Clean & Clear Plus CCP420 Cartridge Filter, Pentair MiniMax NT Heater, Hayward Pool Vac XL

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Too Many Bends?

    Glad you found the problem pretty quickly.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •