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Thread: Balancing after opening pool after winter shut-down, still questions

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    Balancing after opening pool after winter shut-down, still questions

    Thanks for helping me get started my first year after shut-down. I still have questions about balance. Some of my numbers are way high. I used pool math and will follow the advice. My question is about the high calcium and TA numbers. Here they are:

    filled pool 6-1, ran SWG 8 hours 6-4-15 6-5-15
    added 160 lbs salt per pool mfg. directions taken at 10:00 PM taken at 7:00 AM
    added 1.6 lbs cyanueric acid SWG ran 8 hrs each night until
    ran pump 12 hrs. tonight, shut down for testing,
    pump ran approx 16 hrs/day
    Reading on 6-3-15
    FC 1.5 FC 4 FC 4
    CC 0 CC .5 CC .5
    CYA 40 CYA 60 ? CYA 40 (prob. wrong last night)
    TA 400 TA 420
    CH 675 CH 425
    salt 4000 salt 4000
    PH 7.2 PH 7.2

    I am to add bleach and borax per pool math, no problem I can do that.
    But should I remove some of the water to try to reduce the calcium numbers and the salt? I am concerned about the calcium numbers so high. Would appreciate advice prior to adding the chemicals if I should be replacing some of the water, especially if I should drain about 40% of the water. Our water is on the harder side in the Midwest, Illinois. Using city water.

    Thanks so much. I appreciate all the advice.
    18"X48" Intex Ultra Pool; AG; 6424 gal; instal 5-26-14
    First time pool owner; NW IL
    Krystal Clear Model 635 Filter Pump-Cartridge A; 1500 gal/hr
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System Model CS8110 added

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Balancing after opening pool after winter shut-down, still questions

    Unless you already replaced a whole bunch of water, there's a problem. CH doesn't just drop 1/3 spontaneously. I'd question the testing. If it's 425, that's a bit high, but easily managed and if the tap water is close to 400, you'll never get it below 300 anyway.

    The discrepancy on the TA tests is within tolerance, but the numbers themselves are very high.

    You don't need to add Borax. Aeration alone will raise your pH with your high TA.
    The FC is just fine for your CYA level and a SWG.
    As long as your SWG is happy with the salt level, you should be, too.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Balancing after opening pool after winter shut-down, still questions

    Sorry I tried to edit my post after I realized the way I formatted the numbers was causing them to show up wrong.

    I did drain the pool down to about 1 to 2 inches of water, had algae when opened the pool; posted photos last week. I couldn't get the last few inches out, so could not get the gunk out either because my vacuum must be submersed to use it. I brushed down the sides with bleach and dumped the rest of the gallon of bleach into the few inches of water and brushed the bottom of the pool. I then filled it which was confirmed as the best course of action through forum.

    Ran SWG 8 hrs 6/2,Tues, and 6/3 Wednesday and pump about 12 hrs both days. Pool cloudy and still cloudy, maybe a bit better. I can see the bottom but having trouble getting the gunk from bottom out of the pool. I vacuumed yesterday about an hour and got all that was settled then. More settled today. I have to vacuum standing outside the pool, water 70 degrees so still don't want to get in the pool.

    Readings from 6-3 about 6:00 PM: FC 1.5; CC 0; PH 7.2; TA 400 (40 drops); CYA 40; Calcium 675; salt 4000 Ran SWG and pump overnight. Using a 2014 calcium testing kit, which most people thought would be OK.

    Readings from 6-4, after dark, around 10:00 PM are: FC 4; CC .5; so chlorine up as it should be, that's good; CYA 60 (guessing this reading is wrong) Did not run SWG at night, but ran pump about 8 hrs. I understood to test for live algae, this was the correct method and it appears none. correct?

    Readings from today, 6-5, about 7:00 AM are: FC 4; CC .5; CYA 40; PH 7.2; TA 420; Calcium 425; salt 4000. So no change in FC or CC, PH same as Wednesday, TA is up from 400 to 420 and this is unbelievably high, I know, but I got close to the same number both times. What could be causing this? I used 40 to 42 drops of R-009 but at most I am off 2 drops. I will redo all tests again tonight about 6 after running SWG 4 hrs. and pump 12 hrs. But I beleive both calcium and TA are very high.

    Pool Math said to add 11 oz by weight of 8.25% bleach (using chlorox regular); and 93 oz, by weight of borax to raise PH given TA of 420. For the calcium problem, it says 38% of the water could be replaced and for the salt, I could replace 13% of the water. My pump is the Intex cartridge type so the outtake water barely breaks the surface of the water. Is that going to be enough aeration to raise the PH. I assume 7.5 is the goal there.

    I know the numbers don't seem accurate, but I believe they are, unless I am reading the directions wrong. I used this method last year and had trouble with the TA getting high, but never this high. It ran 240, got up to 280 so I added acid and got back to 240 and eventually got it down to 220.

    My questions are:
    1. Given the correct numbers above, do I need to drain the pool again and refill?

    2. If so, I need to do that right away and then go back to pool math for chemistry balancing, right?

    3. Isn't the high calcium number bad for my SWG? Are there other methods to lower the calcium content besides draining? Water runs a bit hard here, in the Midwest.

    4. If TA numbers correct, what could be the cause and how do I deal with that?

    Thank you for looking at this again. I apologize for the incorrect formatting which made my information jumbled. I am so grateful for your help.
    18"X48" Intex Ultra Pool; AG; 6424 gal; instal 5-26-14
    First time pool owner; NW IL
    Krystal Clear Model 635 Filter Pump-Cartridge A; 1500 gal/hr
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System Model CS8110 added

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Balancing after opening pool after winter shut-down, still questions

    Okay...

    If your pool is cloudy and you had a bunch of sludge, you need the SLAM process. So your FC numbers are too low. The SWG won't be able to keep up with the demand.

    Draining and refilling won't help. The high CH and TA came from your fill water. It'll just do it again and again.

    pH is good. Jack FC up to 16 using bleach and keep maintaining it there every few hours. When the SLAM is complete, you recheck numbers and raise CYA if needed and adjust pH. If you need to lower TA further, there are how to instructions in Pool School. That's far into the future at this point. Remember when the SLAM is complete. Algae comes first. Nobody cares how perfect your numbers are if the water is green or cloudy or there's drifts of dead algae n the floor.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Balancing after opening pool after winter shut-down, still questions

    Thank you. I will use pool math then to tell me how much bleach to add. You said keep it up there and check every few hours, how long do I need to keep the numbers up at 16? 12 hours, I don't understand that. I assume I would not want to cover the pool during this process, correct? I do have leaves blowing in but use a hand skimmer for that. I have a skimmer that attaches to the side of the pool, but it doesn't work great. Can I run the pump also, what about running the SWG during this process?

    Thanks again.
    18"X48" Intex Ultra Pool; AG; 6424 gal; instal 5-26-14
    First time pool owner; NW IL
    Krystal Clear Model 635 Filter Pump-Cartridge A; 1500 gal/hr
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System Model CS8110 added

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Balancing after opening pool after winter shut-down, still questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabo View Post
    Thank you. I will use pool math then to tell me how much bleach to add. You said keep it up there and check every few hours, how long do I need to keep the numbers up at 16? 12 hours, I don't understand that. I assume I would not want to cover the pool during this process, correct? I do have leaves blowing in but use a hand skimmer for that. I have a skimmer that attaches to the side of the pool, but it doesn't work great. Can I run the pump also, what about running the SWG during this process?

    Thanks again.
    It could be days. I forgot to link the complete article on How to perform the Shock Level And Maintain process.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Balancing after opening pool after winter shut-down, still questions

    Thanks, again. I assume the FC level of 16 coresponds to the CYA of 40 as I note the chart gives much higher levels for a SWG but also the CYA is almost double. Pool math tells me to add 128 oz. of bleach and if I am reading correctly, I add that all at one time slowly in front of the pump outflow. I will keep testing to make sure level still at 16, add more bleach and keep testing and adding until water is clear. I will run the pump 24 hrs until the Slam is done. I passed A and B already in You are done when, but of course my water is still cloudy, so once water is clear, I am done when I get the .5 CC and do the overnight test with no loss of chlorine, correct.

    Sorry, for checking everything, but I want to get this done and be able to use my solar cover to heat the water.

    Thanks for confirming that I understand everything correctly.
    18"X48" Intex Ultra Pool; AG; 6424 gal; instal 5-26-14
    First time pool owner; NW IL
    Krystal Clear Model 635 Filter Pump-Cartridge A; 1500 gal/hr
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System Model CS8110 added

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Balancing after opening pool after winter shut-down, still questions

    Yep, you have it. 16 FC until the water clears up and it still passes the overnight loss and CC tests. Do what you can to improve circulation down deep. Point a return down or something. You need to keep the particles in suspension so the filter can grab 'em.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Balancing after opening pool after winter shut-down, still questions

    Got it, you have been most helpful. I will do it. Thank you.
    18"X48" Intex Ultra Pool; AG; 6424 gal; instal 5-26-14
    First time pool owner; NW IL
    Krystal Clear Model 635 Filter Pump-Cartridge A; 1500 gal/hr
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System Model CS8110 added

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