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Thread: Cal-hypo for algae shock

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    Question Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Hi all, I am a new pool owner and therefore acting like it is my first-born. Very very paranoid that somehow I will end up turning it all to ash. So, it was just installed last week, it is an outdoor salt pool with a brand new liner. The liner is very dark blue so of course I am super concerned about bleaching it. However, it sat for a day or two before our chlorinator got the FC up to about 3.5. Therefore, algae... It's not bad, just a slight green tinge to the pool. However we tried algaecide and it didn't work so we're thinking Shock. We've purchased the Power Powder Plus from Leslie's. They recommended 3 bags even though that's over our pool size, but I guess a little too much can't hurt. Better than not enough. My question is this: How do we do this so it doesn't bleach our beautiful new dark liner!? It says on the bag to NOT dissolve before putting it in pool. Many places I've seen said to not dissolve the granules first. Why? I'm not sure. But I have seen the opposite advice as well. What to do? Help...
    FC = 3.4
    Calcium = 0 (it was filled with well water)
    pH = 7.2
    TA = 110
    CYA = 30ish
    THANKS!!
    32,000 vinyl liner pool, swg, sand filter. In the south y'all. Where algae runs free and the frogs swim laps at night.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Welcome to TFP!!

    My first suggestion is to stop going to the pool store. Their only response it to sell you something.

    We do not "shock" our pools, we follow the SLAM Process when there is a problem.

    Where did you get your test numbers from?? Not much credence is given to pool store testing around here. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their testing. In my case two different pool stores told me my CYA was "fine", around 70 or 80. When I tested myself I found it over 200.

    Our method of pool care is based on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it. I bet Leslies's was happy to sell you algecide, but did you know that algecide is a preventative product that is not good for killing active algae outbreaks? Order a TF100 and at least include the XL option. That will give you what you need while you are clearing the pool, and probably enough reagents for a couple of years normal use.

    Your vinyl liner does not need any calcium, so the less expensive way to clear the pool will be to SLAM it using liquid chlorine. In most areas of the country the least expensive chlorine is bleach from WalMart.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Thanks for the quick response! I actually tested it myself. We got a Taylor test kit. It's the bigger one that has the full gamut of tests so that should be pretty accurate. I told you we were paranoid...I think we've tested twice a day over the past few days. lol Moving forward we may try the bleach method, but would the cal-hypo be ok to use for this first time? If so, how would you recommend integrating it so there is no chance of bleaching or staining the liner?
    Oh, and thanks for the confirmation of the complete uselessness of that algaecide. It was a waste of time for us I think.
    32,000 vinyl liner pool, swg, sand filter. In the south y'all. Where algae runs free and the frogs swim laps at night.

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Quote Originally Posted by cmills View Post
    Thanks for the quick response! I actually tested it myself. We got a Taylor test kit. It's the bigger one that has the full gamut of tests so that should be pretty accurate. I told you we were paranoid...I think we've tested twice a day over the past few days. lol Moving forward we may try the bleach method, but would the cal-hypo be ok to use for this first time? If so, how would you recommend integrating it so there is no chance of bleaching or staining the liner?
    Oh, and thanks for the confirmation of the complete uselessness of that algaecide. It was a waste of time for us I think.
    Remember, the way to get rid of algae is to maintain the chlorine level at the shock level for whatever time it takes to kill ALL of the algae. Throwing a couple of bags of shock in the pool (like most pool stores recommend) will kill SOME of the algae, but not all of it. What it doesn't kill slowly reproduces and the day after you have a pool party with lots of kids swimming and you skip testing and adding chlorine - it turns cloudy on you.

    That is why we call our method of killing the algae SLAM Shock Level and Maintain. Maintain is the key word. For a small outbreak it may take a few days of testing and bringing the chlorine level back up to shock level four or five times a day. This is the big difference between us and the pool store. We tell you how to kill it. They teach you to come to them for help over and over so they can keep selling you things. Algecicde this time, next time that will say you r phosphates are too high, thats whay you have algae and sell you PhosFree. Next time your total dissolved solids are high, you need floculant followed by clarifeir. It is a never ending cycle for them.

    So, which test kit did you get the K-2005 or the K-2006?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Good to know! I will start coming here and avoid those places. The amount of research and info out there on the interwebs has melted my brain a bit. This site is for sure going on my bookmarks.
    The kit I got was around $65 or so. Probably the k2006. I'm not home right this second so I can't check. We figured we probably want to maintain a fc level of 4-5 once the algae is gone. It seems our ideal levels are as follows: 4.5 fc, 120 ta, 7.6 pH, and 70 cya. Sound right to you?
    Also, what level of chlorine do you recommend and for how many days, to make sure the algae is gone?
    32,000 vinyl liner pool, swg, sand filter. In the south y'all. Where algae runs free and the frogs swim laps at night.

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Quote Originally Posted by cmills View Post
    Good to know! I will start coming here and avoid those places. The amount of research and info out there on the interwebs has melted my brain a bit. This site is for sure going on my bookmarks.
    The kit I got was around $65 or so. Probably the k2006. I'm not home right this second so I can't check. We figured we probably want to maintain a fc level of 4-5 once the algae is gone. It seems our ideal levels are as follows: 4.5 fc, 120 ta, 7.6 pH, and 70 cya. Sound right to you?
    Also, what level of chlorine do you recommend and for how many days, to make sure the algae is gone?
    yes, FC of 4.5 would be good for 70 CYA in a salt water pool. SLAM level for CYA 70 is 28.0, so you definetly want to do your SLAM before you raise your CYA. you keep the SLAM level of FC until you pass the three criteria. read up on the SLAM process and start stockpiling bleach
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Will do. Any tips for adding the dose of cal-hypo as mentioned in the first post so as to not hurt the liner? I've heard conflicting methods (dissolve first, don't dissolve, add to skimmer, add to pool, dance in a circle and toss it over your shoulder....sigh). Once that dose is gone, we'll stockpile the bleach for future use.
    32,000 vinyl liner pool, swg, sand filter. In the south y'all. Where algae runs free and the frogs swim laps at night.

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Deleted, link did not work.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Quote Originally Posted by cmills View Post
    Good to know! I will start coming here and avoid those places. The amount of research and info out there on the interwebs has melted my brain a bit. This site is for sure going on my bookmarks.
    The kit I got was around $65 or so. Probably the k2006. I'm not home right this second so I can't check. We figured we probably want to maintain a fc level of 4-5 once the algae is gone. It seems our ideal levels are as follows: 4.5 fc, 120 ta, 7.6 pH, and 70 cya. Sound right to you?
    Also, what level of chlorine do you recommend and for how many days, to make sure the algae is gone?
    The pool stores won't teach you this, but the FC is always a ratio of the amount of stabilizer you have in the water. If your CYA stays at 30, then your FC should never go below 2, and you should target 4 to keep it above 2.

    But, you have a SWG, and we recommend higher CYA for that so here are our

    FC 5 - 8 (5 is absolute minimum!!)
    pH 7.5-7.8
    TA 60-80
    CH 0-300 (Don't add)
    CYA 70

    As to the SLAM, read the link in my previous post. As long as the CYA stays at 30, your shock level is 12. Don't rais the CYA any more until you are done with the SLAM.

    How much Pool School have you read? Start with these:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    cmills,

    As you might know the Power Powder plus will raise both the CH, CL, and salt levels of your pool. I believe each bag contains 1 lb of product. That 1 lb of 73% cal-hypo will raise your FC by 2.7, your CH by 1.9 and your salt by 2.8.

    With a CYA of 30 you will need to add 4x 1 lb bags of Power Powder Plus to get your pool to shock level to bring your FC over 12. If you were to add 3 bags you would be at 11.5 FC which is below the value you need to shock. If your CYA was higher you would need even more Power Powder Plus. As you are most likely aware the way they advertise the product is by gallons (1 lb per 16,000 gallons) and they completely ignore the CYA measurement. This is one example of why it is highly recommended that you avoid pool stores and their advice and products.

    I am not sure what you paid for the Power Powder Plus but the are currently selling 24 lbs for $100. So if you were to use 4 bags @ $4.16 each it would cost you $16.67 to raise your CL to shock value, and then $4.16 every time you have to add another bag to maintain the shock level.

    If you are using bleach it would take 4.5 128 oz jugs to raise your CL to 12. I believe the average cost of Bleach is around $3.00 per 128 oz. bottle (that's what I pay at Costco $9 for 3). It would cost $15 (assuming you would just use the full 5 jugs) to raise your CL to shock value and then $3.00 per jug after to maintain the shock level. Not a significant savings by any means, however it is cheaper, each jug will raise your CL by 2.7 and salt by 4.4.

    There is no CH in bleach which isn't such a big deal for a vinyl liner pool, too high of level is still and issue, but someone with a plaster and fiberglass pool may want to track CH closer. A vinyl liner pool needs 0 CH.

    The main points of this site is to understand your pools' chemistry and how the things you add to it impact that chemistry. Most of chemicals that this site recommends only adjust one chemical balance at a time which really helps you understand and manage the pool.

    I hope this post was helpful.
    25,000 gallon in ground white plaster- 1 1/2 HP Pentair SuperFlo pump - 60 sqft FNS DE filter (with FiberClear), 1999 Sundance Optima 850 hot tub.
    Manassas Park, VA

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Ok, thanks for all the advice everyone. I can definitely tell there is a big believership in liquid chlorine and after this I will look into doing it that way.
    Did a little researching and it seems the best way to add cal-hypo is to premix in a bucket slowly pour over returns and brush bottom and sides (while swg is turned off and pump is on). Any feedback would be appreciated if that's not correct.
    I also checked out all the links provided for Pool School and how to SLAM the pool. VERY good stuff!
    32,000 vinyl liner pool, swg, sand filter. In the south y'all. Where algae runs free and the frogs swim laps at night.

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Eek! Weird turn of events. I just tested and my cya is now so low the test wont measure it. Gotta be less than 30, could be none. What happened?! Can I still SLAM without it and add cya afterwards? The water isnt any worse, still just a very light green tinge in the deep end.
    Cya...dunno, way low, maybe 0
    Ph...7.5
    Ta...120
    Fc...5.5

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Quote Originally Posted by cmills View Post
    Eek! Weird turn of events. I just tested and my cya is now so low the test wont measure it. Gotta be less than 30, could be none. What happened?! Can I still SLAM without it and add cya afterwards? The water isnt any worse, still just a very light green tinge in the deep end.
    Cya...dunno, way low, maybe 0
    Ph...7.5
    Ta...120
    Fc...5.5
    Did you drain water? That is the only way CYA goes away. 30 is about the threshold for the CYA test, so if you saw it there before and this time not I'm just going to believe it's around 30 and bouncing within the range of the test error range.

    Bring the pH down to 7.2 and SLAM away assuming 30 is what I would say
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    No, didn't drain. We had a light rainstorm last night but could something be eating the cya too?

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    Quote Originally Posted by cmills View Post
    No, didn't drain. We had a light rainstorm last night but could something be eating the cya too?
    Unlikely. I think you are just at the edge of the amount showing up on tests like I said.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Cal-hypo for algae shock

    the CYA test is plus/minus about 10 I believe...so if you were getting something close to 30, its possible its just outside the accuracy of the test. if you want, assume its 30 and add stabilizer to get to 40 based on pool math tab. that should bring it up a little bit to register, but its going to take a week to register on the test. you can proceed to SLAM and just use the numbers based on CYA of 40. before I do that, I would repeat the test again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cmills View Post
    No, didn't drain. We had a light rainstorm last night but could something be eating the cya too?
    no. rain is just pure water. doesn't eat/consume anything.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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