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Thread: ProTeam Metal Magic

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    ProTeam Metal Magic

    I could not get an accurate CH test with my Taylor K-2006 test kit. Called Taylor and the guy there told me that I had too much metal in the pool. He suggested I add a quart of ProTeam Metal Magic. I did that and after three days the pool turned cloudy - so much so that I couldn't see the bottom steps. The ProTeam people told me this is as it should be - it shows the PT is working. It's been a week since adding ProTeam MM and the pool is still very cloudy. I've been brushing it twice a day and have kept the Dolphin running for the last two days - also backwashing every evening with very little clouds showing in my site glass - to no avail. At the suggestion of the pool store, I added 20 oz. of Sea Clear Natural Clarifier...only minimally effective. Problem is now I can get accurate CH readings (based upon proper color change) but unsure of my CYA level because the pool is so cloudy. Should I slam the pool?

    FC: 3.5
    CC: 0.5
    pH: 7.4
    TA: 80
    CH: 40
    CYA: (70???) - previously was at 40
    20 x 40 in-ground, vinyl, 36,000 gal. Hayward pump - 45 gal per min. Sand filter.

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    Azgirl71's Avatar
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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    I wish I had answers for you on the Pro Team but I don't.

    I do see your FC is low.

    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    Thanks for the information, Azgirl - would slamming help clear up the cloudiness caused by the Metal Magic? I wanna SLAM it anyhow, but I don't want to mess it up ... will the extra chlorine from the SLAM react with the Metal Magic and make the pool even more cloudy?
    20 x 40 in-ground, vinyl, 36,000 gal. Hayward pump - 45 gal per min. Sand filter.

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    Azgirl71's Avatar
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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    I would certainly SLAM. I do not know for certain if it will initially cause more cloudiness or not. Maybe someone else will chime in on that that know more about chemical reactions. I would think doing a full SLAM and following it to the end would do it.
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    What exactly do you mean by "couldnt get an accurate CH test"? Did it read zero? or very low? How do you know it wasnt accurate?

    I would recommend doing a CH test on your tap water also and see what it says. If your fill water tests very low for CH, then it may well be that you just didnt have much CH in the water to begin with, and the test was right.

    the CYA is a test which makes the test solution turn cloudy. Since the water is already cloudy, thats probably negatively affecting the CYA test. I would not consider it accurate until the water clears up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger1221 View Post
    I could not get an accurate CH test with my Taylor K-2006 test kit. Called Taylor and the guy there told me that I had too much metal in the pool. He suggested I add a quart of ProTeam Metal Magic. I did that and after three days the pool turned cloudy - so much so that I couldn't see the bottom steps. The ProTeam people told me this is as it should be - it shows the PT is working. It's been a week since adding ProTeam MM and the pool is still very cloudy. I've been brushing it twice a day and have kept the Dolphin running for the last two days - also backwashing every evening with very little clouds showing in my site glass - to no avail. At the suggestion of the pool store, I added 20 oz. of Sea Clear Natural Clarifier...only minimally effective. Problem is now I can get accurate CH readings (based upon proper color change) but unsure of my CYA level because the pool is so cloudy. Should I slam the pool?

    FC: 3.5
    CC: 0.5
    pH: 7.4
    TA: 80
    CH: 40
    CYA: (70???) - previously was at 40
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    Thanks for the info, Dave. Initially my CH test was turning pink then purple. I called Taylor and the dude told me that is not a good reading, unless I get red to blue. He suggested the sequestrant. Now I'm getting accurate CH test (red to blue) but the pool is so cloudy that I doubt my CYA test is accurate. Before using the Metal Magic, my CYA reading was consistently between 40 and 50.

    I have two questions I'll bet you can answer for me:

    1. Going to SLAM the water before it clears. Will the chlorine react with the MM and make the pool even more cloudy?
    2. Have an auto-chlorinator (simply a container that holds some trichlor tablets before water is returned to pool). I understand that tri-chlor also has alot of CYA stabilzer. Do I really need to use the auto-chlorinator?
    20 x 40 in-ground, vinyl, 36,000 gal. Hayward pump - 45 gal per min. Sand filter.

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    Hey Avenger,
    Im glad to help out man, no worries.

    No worries about Slamming with the MM. I might turn a bit more cloudy but shouldnt by much. Dont put any more clarifier in it either. There are all sorts of clarifiers and some of them are not good for your filter at all.

    Your understanding of Triclor pucks is correct. For every 10ppm of FC a puck adds, it also adds 6ppm of CYA. CYA doesnt go away except by dilution.
    FC needs to be added every day. As you might expect, using Triclor over time the CYA will increase and increase until it reaches a point where the FC that the puck adds is not sufficient to overcome the buffering effects of the CYA, and you end up with Algae.

    Every single day, there are several folks who are 1st time visitors asking for help because they have algae and they 'think' they have been doing the right thing by using them... unfortunately, the side effects of the pucks adding CYA are not worth the convenince of them. They just dont work well in the long run.

    we (TFP), do not recommend trichlor pucks as your main source of chlorine, for just this reason. We recommend only using liquid chlorine, because it doesnt add anything other than chlorine and a tiny bit of salt to the pool. Saltwater generators are also fine to use for the same reason.

    Regarding the CH test, Im going to hit up a couple or more folks here on the forum who are real chemical experts and have them read your post about it, and hopefully chime in on this too. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it one way or other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger1221 View Post
    Thanks for the info, Dave. Initially my CH test was turning pink then purple. I called Taylor and the dude told me that is not a good reading, unless I get red to blue. He suggested the sequestrant. Now I'm getting accurate CH test (red to blue) but the pool is so cloudy that I doubt my CYA test is accurate. Before using the Metal Magic, my CYA reading was consistently between 40 and 50.

    I have two questions I'll bet you can answer for me:

    1. Going to SLAM the water before it clears. Will the chlorine react with the MM and make the pool even more cloudy?
    2. Have an auto-chlorinator (simply a container that holds some trichlor tablets before water is returned to pool). I understand that tri-chlor also has alot of CYA stabilzer. Do I really need to use the auto-chlorinator?
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    Thanks, Dave for your help! ... I'm learning much from the TFP school and forums. Can't wait for my crystal clear pool!
    20 x 40 in-ground, vinyl, 36,000 gal. Hayward pump - 45 gal per min. Sand filter.

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    Hang in there man .. it will come.
    It took a bit of time to get like it is, and will take a little time to clear it up and become enjoyable for you again.

    2 months from now after youve gotten the hang of it a bit better you will not belive how easy it is and never have to worry about it again.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    Thanks ... hope so - with knowledgeable people like you how can I go wrong?
    20 x 40 in-ground, vinyl, 36,000 gal. Hayward pump - 45 gal per min. Sand filter.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    As to worrying about low calcium- you've got a vinyl pool, calcium isn't particularly needed in vinyl. You can get by with a calcium level of 50 per Pool School.

    Welcome to this great pool hangout
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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    Dave - I some about 5#'s of Calcium Hypochlorite (73%) left, that I'd like to use. Can I begin SLAMming with the CaOCl2 and then keep my FC level up to 17 using bleach?

    Thnx, Tom
    20 x 40 in-ground, vinyl, 36,000 gal. Hayward pump - 45 gal per min. Sand filter.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    I would not use the calcium to SLAM. Calcium can also cause cloudiness so lest not confuse one with the other.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    OK, Tim - Thanks for the quick reply... I bought 18 gals of 10% ChemTek bleach. The Pool Calculator calls for 10 gals initially. Any estimate as to how many gallons I will need before I'm finished with the SLAM? My pool is clean, but cloudy from the sequestrant I added, at the advice of some dude at Taylor. I plan to test the FC and brush every two hours. I've read on this forum where it took some people two-weeks before they were finished with the SLAM. Is two-weeks normal, or less, I hope?
    20 x 40 in-ground, vinyl, 36,000 gal. Hayward pump - 45 gal per min. Sand filter.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    That is always the question folks want an answer to that we really can't provide. It is an unknown. I would hope with good numbers just looking for the water to clear would be days, not weeks.

    I didn't notice it, but have you now added DE to the sand filter?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    Not yet ... going to Lowe's to get some DE and more bleach ...
    20 x 40 in-ground, vinyl, 36,000 gal. Hayward pump - 45 gal per min. Sand filter.

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    Re: ProTeam Metal Magic

    Began this journal in case some other newbie like myself wants to know what happens, and how long it takes, to SLAM a pool. My pool was filthy and murky - looked like a pond left over from a construction site. Following a suggestion from a dude at Taylor Chemical, I added a quart of sequestrant (ProTeam Metal Magic) to remove the metals. Pool turned completely cloudy - could see clouds floating in the water - pretty while enjoying a Homebrew from my personal private stock, but my wife was not impressed. I commented to my complaining wife that our pool was unique. In what other city can you find a real alligator swamp, complete with authentic "aroma"? Possessing no aesthetic appreciation, my wife said she's going to a real swamp and get a real alligator to put in our pool. I told her to go ahead, because the stupid alligator couldn't survive in this swamp and would probably die in a few days anyhow. Pool visibility was only about 2 or 3 INCHES below the surface. The pool store told me to add some clarifier - which I did, but it didn't help at all. Found TFP and read all the instruction pages and some comments on the forum's pertaining to filthy pools. After cleaning out about five feet of leaves, dead lizards, snakes, spiders, twigs and other creatures, I decided to SLAM my pool to see what it really looks like. Many thanks to Azgirl, Tim (moderator) and David (moderator). Test kit is Taylor K-2006. KemTek (Chlorox) Bleach - 10%. Purchased 33 gals at Lowe's for $3.76 / gal.

    Day 1:

    11:30 am - FC 0.5; CC 0.5. Began SLAM ... brought FC up to 20 (based on CYA levels when I could still get an accurate reading). Brushed pool.
    4:30 pm - FC had dropped to 15.5. Added Cl to bring it back to 20 and also add some D.E. to help clear out the cloudiness caused from the addition of sequestrant. Brushed pool.
    7:30 pm - FC holding at 20 and CC rose to 1 ppm ... see where it's at in the morning.

    Day 2:

    8:00 am - FC - 17, CC 1; for the L of it, tested PH - 7.8. Added some acid and Cl back to 20. Bought some D.E. from Lowe's for $4.99 / 24 #'s. Added 3 cups D.E. via TFP instruction, to skimmer. Brushed pool.
    12:00 noon - FC - 18.5, CC - <0.1, pH - 7.7. Pool starting to turn blue!!, but still cloudy. Added Cl back to 20. Hope the D.E. helps ... Brushed pool.
    4:00 pm - FC - 17 Added Cl back to 20 and 2 more cups D.E. to skimmer ... pool really getting blue and beginning to see the vinyl pattern in shallow end! Brushed pool.
    7:30 pm - FC - 18; Added Cl back to 20. Backwash to get rid of 5 cups of D.E. Added 3 cups D.E. after backwash. Begin to see vinyl pattern in deep end! Brushed pool.

    Day 3:

    10:30 am - FC - 17.5; CC - < 0.5; pH - 7.8. Added Cl to 20; Acid to 7.4. Backwash and add D.E. Pool finally blue - can't see Main Drains yet. Still cloudy, but much better. Brushed pool.
    3:00 pm - FC - 17; pH - 7.4 Added Cl to 20. Pool deep blue; can now see about 5' into the deep end. Still cloudy and cannot see the Main Drains .. but, it's getting there, quicker than I thought. Brushed pool.
    7:00 pm - FC - 24 (????) - How is that possible? Been very careful with water and taken care with powder and titration reagent ... no change in pool clarity.

    Day 4:

    8:00 am - FC - 21; CC: <0.5; pH - 7.4; TA - 90; CH - 40; CYA - 42. FC dropped 3 points during the night, so I'm guessing that last night's reading of 24 was accurate ... maybe I plugged in wrong number into calculator. Pool cannot get any bluer but still can't see to the bottom of the deep end - water is hazy and was considering adding Aqua Chem clarifier; but when I did the CYA test this morning I was getting readings similar to what I was getting before adding the MM. (After I added the MM the pool was too cloudy and getting CYA >100 after only a few drops.) Now with my CYA reading back to the level I had before adding the MM, obviously this means the water is definitely clearing!!! Backwashed and added 3 cups of D.E.
    12:00 noon - Ran out of titration reagent this morning. I had ordered some extra reagent last week from Amazon. The product has already shipped from the "seller facility" but they shipped it USPS (ugh - snail mail). The seller estimates delivery sometime between Jun 8 to June 18 - depending on when USPS gets around to delivering it ... should they eventually decide to! I added Cl based upon yesterday's reading at the same time. Went by pool store and bought some R-0003 - the dude told me it is the same as R-0871. Checked with Taylor when I got back home and Taylor said "...not the same". Can finally see the two main drains in the deep end (just barely)! Haven't seen those since September, last year (it's now June)! Brushed pool.
    4:30 pm - Added estimated amount of Cl to bring FC back to 20 (guessed that reading is the same as it was yesterday at 4:30 pm). Brushed pool. Water looks as good as other pool pictures I've seen on the web. Will continue with SLAM as TFP suggests - until water is crystal clear.

    Day 5

    7:00 am) What a difference a night makes! My pool is clear, but still a little hazy. Can clearly see the two main drains! Added estimated Cl to bring FC back up to 20. Backwashed, added D.E. and brushed pool. I'm going to continue the SLAM until crystal clear - should be there in the next two or three days.

    If I could offer some advice to other "newbies" like myself, it is:

    1. Pay no attention to You Tube videos, or other websites, where some dude says he cleared his pool in three days by adding gobs of algaecide, then gobs of flock, then vacuumed to waste ... that's BS ... I tried it and all it does is add more junk to your pool that you'll have to oxidize with bleach.

    2. Pay no attention to your local pool store personnel - they don't really know what they're doing ... they are there to sell chemicals. I took water samples to my pool store everyday for two weeks. I spent over $430 on chemicals with only minor improvement.

    3. Read the instruction pages on TFP Pool School. Look at some forums specific to your problems. There's a wealth of information and learning on this site, and the people here definitely know what they're talking about.

    4. Buy yourself a good test-kit ... one that gives you accurate FC readings. I used the Taylor K-2006 kit. I understand the TF100 is also an excellent kit ... both are available online for around $60 - $70. Be sure to buy some extra FC titration reagent before you begin. You'll be testing three or four times a day and you'll run out.

    5. It takes a little "elbow-grease" but the result is well worth it. Make sure your pool is as free of debris as possible before you begin. I have a liner pool, so I brushed the pool walls and bottom with each application of bleach. If you have a sand-filter, follow TFP directions for adding it to the skimmer. Don't think that "...a little is good, so more is even better..." Adding more than recommended only increases pump pressure with no increase in filtration.

    There you have it!
    20 x 40 in-ground, vinyl, 36,000 gal. Hayward pump - 45 gal per min. Sand filter.

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