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Thread: Organic stain question

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    Organic stain question

    I have a small brownish stain on my liner that I'm going to test to determine if it's organic or metal related. For the record I just passed an OCLT test so I'm pretty sure it's not just algae.

    So, I understand I need to put a chlorine puck in my net and hover it over the stain for a few minutes. Then if that area clears up, it's organic, if not then metal.

    Questions: So I see the what-to-do for metal, but if it's organic, what do you do to finish off the stain? Do I just move the puck around over the stain until all of it is clear? Also, is there a danger of messing up my liner if I touch the puck to it?

    Thank you.
    24,300 gallons, IG vinyl, Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter, 3ft to 9ft deep

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    Re: Organic stain question

    You can use crushed vitamin C tablets in a sock and rub it on the stain. If it goes away it is iron staining.
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Organic stain question

    I think there's a good chance it's organic because some leaves and crud had gotten under the cover before I opened somehow. I've also never had metal in my water according to the once a year I take a sample to the pool store. (can't test for metal with my TFT kit) That said, should I try vitamin C tablets first?

    If that shows it's not metal, do I then try the chlorine puck, raising the same questions as above?

    And thanks for the response!
    Last edited by ChewBiscuit; 06-02-2015 at 08:10 AM. Reason: Forgot to say thanks

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    Re: Organic stain question

    It would not hurt. If you run a OLCT and you pass it is not organic. If you fail, then it is organic and should do a SLAM.
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Organic stain question

    Quote Originally Posted by Azgirl71 View Post
    It would not hurt. If you run a OLCT and you pass it is not organic. If you fail, then it is organic and should do a SLAM.
    That's not really true - there are all kinds of organic stains that do not consume Chlorine.
    Tannins in acorns in particular will not show OLCT loss but are easily lifted if you super shock with cal-hypo, bleach just simply isn't concentrated or heavy enough to drop to the floor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ChewBiscuit View Post
    I have a small brownish stain on my liner that I'm going to test to determine if it's organic or metal related. For the record I just passed an OCLT test so I'm pretty sure it's not just algae.

    So, I understand I need to put a chlorine puck in my net and hover it over the stain for a few minutes. Then if that area clears up, it's organic, if not then metal.

    Questions: So I see the what-to-do for metal, but if it's organic, what do you do to finish off the stain? Do I just move the puck around over the stain until all of it is clear? Also, is there a danger of messing up my liner if I touch the puck to it?

    Thank you.
    Lay the puck on it, you will be hard pressed to bleach out the liner by leaving it there for 10-20mins
    30k in ground vinyl lined pool surrounded by decking in the woods.
    Hayward sand filter circa mid 80's
    If there is a way to do things less expensively and yield a superior product I am all ears

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    Re: Organic stain question

    If the OP does a OLCT he can rule out the stains as an organic matter that choline does consume and we will go from there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I would also like to point out to you that bleach is heavy enough to drop to the bottom if poured in too fast.
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Organic stain question

    Quote Originally Posted by Azgirl71 View Post
    If the OP does a OLCT he can rule out the stains as an organic matter that choline does consume and we will go from there.
    The OP posted "For the record I just passed an OCLT test so I'm pretty sure it's not just algae"
    30k in ground vinyl lined pool surrounded by decking in the woods.
    Hayward sand filter circa mid 80's
    If there is a way to do things less expensively and yield a superior product I am all ears

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    Re: Organic stain question

    My apologies for missing that.
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Organic stain question

    Quote Originally Posted by Azgirl71 View Post
    My apologies for missing that.
    No problems here, just wanted to make sure everyone is on the same page.
    I know bleach in jugs may drop if poured to quick, but it isn't nearly as concentrated as cal-hypo mixed in a bucket which will drop even when pump is in operation and clear up all kinds of stains folks have a hard time removing.
    Knowing it's not the "TFP way" I'm not telling people to bleach out their liners for no reason, it just genuinely works - I've done it weekly for the past 9 years
    30k in ground vinyl lined pool surrounded by decking in the woods.
    Hayward sand filter circa mid 80's
    If there is a way to do things less expensively and yield a superior product I am all ears

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    Re: Organic stain question

    Cal-Hypo is high chlorine but not low in pH so it's far less likely to cause a problem on vinyl if not left for too long. Trichlor, on the other hand, is much riskier though here again time is everything. For both vinyl and plaster, it's low pH that is most detrimental. High FC, not nearly as much of an issue though again over time it will "bleach" out color especially if it's an organic dye (but those tend to fade in vinyl anyway which is why inorganic compounds for color are much better and won't bleach out).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Organic stain question

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek View Post
    Cal-Hypo is high chlorine but not low in pH so it's far less likely to cause a problem on vinyl if not left for too long. Trichlor, on the other hand, is much riskier though here again time is everything. For both vinyl and plaster, it's low pH that is most detrimental. High FC, not nearly as much of an issue though again over time it will "bleach" out color especially if it's an organic dye (but those tend to fade in vinyl anyway which is why inorganic compounds for color are much better and won't bleach out).
    Summed up don't leave tri-chlor pucks on your liner overnight.
    And don't broadcast bags of stabilized shock from walmart and let settle on your deep end like the PO of my house did.
    My deep end is mostly white, will be that way until I pull the trigger on a liner, it holds water and cools me off for now
    30k in ground vinyl lined pool surrounded by decking in the woods.
    Hayward sand filter circa mid 80's
    If there is a way to do things less expensively and yield a superior product I am all ears

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    Re: Organic stain question

    Thanks for all of the responses.

    I tried crushing a bunch of vitamin C tablets in a white egg legging and laying it on the stain for a while. I can't really tell if it lightened the stain or not and am kicking myself for not taking a before and after shot. But it's not obviously better. Will try the puck tomorrow, and will make sure not to leave it on the liner overnight!!

    Thanks again all.

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    Re: Organic stain question

    Ok, I'm at a loss. After I didn't notice any difference dropping the crushed vitamin C tablets in a sock in the deep end and moving it onto the stain, I have tried laying 4 pucks on it, 2 at a time for about a half an hour to an hour. I still don't feel like there's any improvement.

    I'm going to try the C tablets again. How long can I leave those on the liner? I think the first time I only gave it an hour.
    24,300 gallons, IG vinyl, Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter, 3ft to 9ft deep

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    Re: Organic stain question

    Chew, if you left it for an hour and it did not lighten or turn black (lighten for iron, turn blackish for some types of copper stains) than it could well be either a tanin stain or even an "under liner" stain...rare, but happens.

    Sunlight and good FC maintenance may ultimately lighten and fade organic stains...occasionally some tannins will cling on for a very long time and generally not respond to much, in my experience.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: Organic stain question

    Quote Originally Posted by Swampwoman View Post
    Chew, if you left it for an hour and it did not lighten or turn black (lighten for iron, turn blackish for some types of copper stains) than it could well be either a tanin stain or even an "under liner" stain...rare, but happens.

    Sunlight and good FC maintenance may ultimately lighten and fade organic stains...occasionally some tannins will cling on for a very long time and generally not respond to much, in my experience.
    Ok. I guess I will just let it be and see if it fades over time. Thank you!
    24,300 gallons, IG vinyl, Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter, 3ft to 9ft deep

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