Numbers check and a few questions please

[chelpiper]

Hello,

When we purchased this house last October, the pool was in pretty rough shape. Once getting the numbers where they needed to be, I wanted to start focusing on removing the stains. The walls have 2 "rings", one at the current water level and one where the previous owners let the pool evaporate to nearly only 2 feet of water left. Then, in between the 2 rings, there is a reddish brown stain on all the walls. The bottoms and steps are fine. I held a chlorine puck to the side for a minute or so but it made no difference. I do not have vitamin c tablets to do the other test, but I am assuming the stain could be metallic? We have very hard water here in this part of Ohio. I have scrubbed and scrubbed with different things such as a brush and also with magic eraser, it will not touch these stains. I bought some HTH Metal Control and would like to try it. Does iron sound like the reasons for these stains? I just finished testing the water and also noticed my TA is high, 190, is this dangerous to swim?

pH - 7.5
TC - a little above 5
TC - 8.5 (FC 8.5/CC 0)
CH - 175
TA - 190
CYA - 60

So, question 1 is from the above with the reddish brown stains.
2.) High alkalinity issue and safety of swimming
3.) I have 1 skimmer and 2 main drains, both on the same side of the rectangle pool. It seems to be doing a good job with the top floating stuff but It does not appear that the finer particles are not being sucked in. At night time with the pool light on you can see these particles floating/suspended in mid depth water. and if I turn the pumps off for a few hours, this stuff settles to the bottom. Isn't this type of stuff supposed to be sucked in by the main drains?
4.) Are there any "plugs" used in the closing process for the main drains? The 2 main drains each have a solid white plastic "X" in the middle of them. Not sure if that is part of the main drain housing or if that is a plug that should have been removed when we opened the pool?
5.) Clarifier and also Metal Control, how soon can we swim after these products, it doesn't state on the bottle.

I apologize in advance for the newbie questions, but appreciate your help.

Chad

 

[BoDarville]

Welcome to TFP!

TC - a little above 5
TC - 8.5 (FC 8.5/CC 0)

I'm confused by this. Can you clarify?

I wouldn't worry about the TA level. Your pool is safe to swim in. If pH remains relatively stable, there's no need to fiddle with TA.

in between the 2 rings, there is a reddish brown stain on all the walls... I held a chlorine puck to the side for a minute or so but it made no difference. I do not have vitamin c tablets to do the other test, but I am assuming the stain could be metallic?

Since the chlorine puck did not lift that stain, then it is likely that the stain is metallic. It may have been caused by previous use of copper-based algaecides or iron (likely if you have well water). I would still suggest doing the Vitamin C test to confirm, though. BTW, is your fill water from a municipal utility or is it well water?

5.) Clarifier and also Metal Control, how soon can we swim after these products, it doesn't state on the bottle.

First, there's no need to use clarifier. If the Vitamin C test confirms that the stains are metal, you can do an Ascorbic Treatment to rid Pool of metal stains . Since chlorine is taken to zero for this test, I would not swim until this treatment is done. After the Ascorbic treatment, you would gradually add back chlorine and then use the sequestrants to keep the metals in suspension which keeps them from redepositing as stains. If it doesn't state any swimming restrictions on the label, then you can swim immediately.


Here's more info on metal stains & treatment: Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains

 

[chelpiper]

Thank you for your help. Just for information in case anyone else is wondering the same thing, I did see that HTH is open 7 days per week, so I called them. Their recommendation for both the metal control and the clarifier is 30 minutes per quart used.

Opps, sorry, I meant CC, not TC for that , just to clarify for you.

My water is from my well, and it is pretty heavy iron. The stains have been their since I bought it, but they do appear to be getting darker.

Thanks a lot for the ascorbic acid information. I did read an article similar to that but that one is much more thorough.

I was worried about the TA level. I hope with usage it lowers. I was concerned because I think I have read TOO MANY articles from multiple sites and some gave conflicting information.

Thanks again for your help!! Have a great weekend!

Chad

Welcome to TFP!

I'm confused by this. Can you clarify?

I wouldn't worry about the TA level. Your pool is safe to swim in. If pH remains relatively stable, there's no need to fiddle with TA.

Since the chlorine puck did not lift that stain, then it is likely that the stain is metallic. It may have been caused by previous use of copper-based algaecides or iron (likely if you have well water). I would still suggest doing the Vitamin C test to confirm, though. BTW, is your fill water from a municipal utility or is it well water?

First, there's no need to use clarifier. If the Vitamin C test confirms that the stains are metal, you can do an Ascorbic Treatment to rid Pool of metal stains . Since chlorine is taken to zero for this test, I would not swim until this treatment is done. After the Ascorbic treatment, you would gradually add back chlorine and then use the sequestrants to keep the metals in suspension which keeps them from redepositing as stains. If it doesn't state any swimming restrictions on the label, then you can swim immediately.


Here's more info on metal stains & treatment: Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains

 

[pooldv]

The only real problem high TA can cause is rising PH. Test regularly and add acid when it gets to 7.8 to reduce it to 7.2. Doing this will gradually lower TA. If you get tired of PH rise or you want to lower it here is the process, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

 

[chelpiper]

Thanks for the reply and the information.

When speaking with a rep from HTH, they advised adding 3 bottles (96 ounces) of Metal Control and then scrub later. This made NO impact on the stains at all. It didn't even reduce them a little. I haven't had a chance for the vitamin c test and I already had the Metal Control product so I used this to try it. I've read where other people have had good success with that product, so I am a little lost at what the stains might be.

The only real problem high TA can cause is rising PH. Test regularly and add acid when it gets to 7.8 to reduce it to 7.2. Doing this will gradually lower TA. If you get tired of PH rise or you want to lower it here is the process, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

 

[basod]

Those may not be metal stains if your description of the pool being allowed to evaporate to a 2' level is true. I think you'd see stains all the way down the side
More likely a pollen/tannin stain.
Hold the puck on there a bit longer and see what happens

 

[chelpiper]

Hi basod,

I should have been more descriptive in my first post. The stains are literally all over the whole walls, brownish color I guess, from top to bottom, but not on the floor of the pool. And where the 2 "rings" are just much more darker in color. It's frustrating because we have beautiful clear water and it looks great if you focus on the floor and the steps but then you see these ugly stains on all the walls and it is not appealing. I will try holding the puck there longer.
I also wanted to add, that when I did my first shock to open the pool, some of the powder hit the sides of the pool and in these areas you can see "runs' where the shock took the stain away as the powder descended to the bottom. But, when I needed to add a little more shock, I tried to do this on purpose and put a little down the side and it didn't seem to do it this time. Ugh, I don't know. Thanks again for the help. I will do the puck here shortly.

 

[chelpiper]

Well, I held the puck in one spot for 4 minutes, then for 1 more minute I lightly "scraped" around in that same area. No change at all, it didn't remove or lighten the stain in any way. Also wanted to add that there are slight stains on the bottom and steps, just not as bad or noticeable. I also notice some rust colored, particles/dust settled on the bottom along the walls. Not sure if maybe this is iron from using the Metal Control products and maybe I have several layers of build up...which might require another treatment of Metal Control?

 

[basod]

Don't add anymore metal control products until you are sure this iron related stain - we're here to not pour money into our pools without need

Stop by the store and grab some vitamin C tablets or grab some Citric acid in powder form usually in the canning supplies section, use it in a sock to test a few areas.
If you have a lemon or orange you could try rubbing a half on a stain to see if it lifts anything.

Long term you need to test for iron in your makeup water and your pool. I'd say take a sample to the pool store but you may have sequestered the metals with your treatment.
Iron test kits are available to check your makeup water from most home centers, the same tests will probably work on pool water

 

[chelpiper]

The vitamin C tablets took the stain away in that area. I tested in several spots and it took it off. I went ahead and bought some ascorbic acid but haven't gotten the other few things I will need. I am on a well, and our water is very high in iron. Would it help if I added some Metal Control product a couple hours ahead of time before I fill my pool when it needs "topped off"?

 

[pooldv]

I don't have any personal experience dealing with metals in the water. But, here is a ha dy article from Pool School that might be helpful.
Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains