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Thread: Will It Pump?

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    Will It Pump?

    Purchased new Hayward 16" sand filter/pump system for Intex Ultra Frame 18' x 48" pool. The goal was install sand filter / SWG by house which is 30' from pool. PVC pipe from pump to pool. I checked elevations of pump suction flow line relative to pool skimmer box suction exit. The pump elevation at house is about 1'-11" higher than pool base (ground). Adding the pump base platform and the wood platform it would set on means that the flow line elevation of the pump suction side is 2" above the flow line of the skimmer. Will this setup still pump to the sand filter without suction problems or that of priming? Thanks,

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Will It Pump?

    Above ground pool pumps the water flows into them. If the pump intake is above the water level then it won't work. (You'd need an inground pool pump.)

    In simplest terms, an above ground pool pump is a flooded suction pump, which means the water level must be higher than the pump for it to operate, and an inground pump has the ability to draw water up from a level lower than the pump. The engineering and structure of these two different types of pumps is what makes them work the way they do. This means that, in a typical installation, you could use an inground-specific pump on an above ground pool, but not an above ground pump on an inground pool with the water level below the pump. (copied from: What is the difference between in ground and above ground pool pump)
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Will It Pump?

    I kinda thought that be the case. I could mount on at grade on concrete pavers (at grade). That would allow at least 4" below the skimmer suction flow line. But 4" difference in elevation is not much. Right? Looks like my only option, since I already have the equipment, is to install beside the pool. That would allow apprx. 25" in elevation below the skimmer. WDUT?

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Will It Pump?

    You'll be fine as long as the intake of the pump and piping is below the level of the water.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Will It Pump?

    Are you saying it pump and not have a suction problem with only 4" of fall? Thank you for your help!
    18' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame, 6,200 gallons + Hayward 16" S166T Sand Filter System, Hayward PowerFlo Matrix Pump, Hayward Aqua-Trol SWG, and Hayward SP1091LX Dyna-Skim Skimmer

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Will It Pump?

    Unless I'm mistaken that Hayward pump does have some suction lift, so if you're only a few inches above the waterline it should pump without any problem. However if you can get it at or below the waterline it'll make priming it easier.

    My Dynamo pump will lift about 8' so some pumps rated for aboveground pools do have some suction lift.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Will It Pump?

    Here is schematic of my math. SCAN_05292015_0000.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    BTW, we bought higher grade pool equipment so that we may use for a future permanent above ground pool. Probably overkill for this Intex pool. lol
    18' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame, 6,200 gallons + Hayward 16" S166T Sand Filter System, Hayward PowerFlo Matrix Pump, Hayward Aqua-Trol SWG, and Hayward SP1091LX Dyna-Skim Skimmer

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Will It Pump?

    What is the pump model?
    Mark
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    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Will It Pump?

    Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1 HP, 3450 RPM
    18' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame, 6,200 gallons + Hayward 16" S166T Sand Filter System, Hayward PowerFlo Matrix Pump, Hayward Aqua-Trol SWG, and Hayward SP1091LX Dyna-Skim Skimmer

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    Re: Will It Pump?

    The Matrix is not self-priming so the inlet to the pump basket needs to be below water level. It is hard to tell from the drawing but it looks like the center line of the pump inlet pipe is at water level, correct? If so, it will probably work ok that way. The only requirement is that water floods the pump basket when the pump is off. In other words, if you were to open the pump basket lid, water would flow into the pump basket from the pool without the pump running.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Will It Pump?

    That is correct with this setup. Flow line of basket is level with pool water. I can remove the platform and grade a little and gain maybe 6" of elevation difference. That is the pump basket would be 6" below water level. BTW pump is not installed yet. will be plumbed in once I figure out it can pump / carry suction. My pre-buy calcs obviously had some flaws. Did not account for the pump flow line being 10.5" above the ground.
    18' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame, 6,200 gallons + Hayward 16" S166T Sand Filter System, Hayward PowerFlo Matrix Pump, Hayward Aqua-Trol SWG, and Hayward SP1091LX Dyna-Skim Skimmer

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    Re: Will It Pump?

    Maybe the real question is not will it pump but rather will it have a priming issue since it is not a self-priming pump. A hydraulic question. If I have a U shape straw and one side is 6" lower than the other, would water flow out and over from the high side.
    18' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame, 6,200 gallons + Hayward 16" S166T Sand Filter System, Hayward PowerFlo Matrix Pump, Hayward Aqua-Trol SWG, and Hayward SP1091LX Dyna-Skim Skimmer

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Will It Pump?

    No it will not have priming issues as long as it is flooded (i.e. pump basket fills on it's own).

    As for your second question, I am not clear on the setup but if the water source is above the outlet and above the highest point of the pipe, then yes it will gravity feed. However, if any point of the pipe is above water level, it will not gravity feed unless you prime the pipe. Basically water seeks it's own level.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Will It Pump?

    I think I have answered my questions. Thank you. (1) the pump will pump. (2) priming issue should be fine. Attached is a sketch of my dims / elevations / projections on layout. If I hold to my elevations correctly, I should be able to get gravity feed priming. IE water flowing back up into the pump basket. correct?SCAN_05292015_0001PUMP.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh that's upside down. Sorry. Try this.SCAN_05292015_0001PUMP.jpg
    18' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame, 6,200 gallons + Hayward 16" S166T Sand Filter System, Hayward PowerFlo Matrix Pump, Hayward Aqua-Trol SWG, and Hayward SP1091LX Dyna-Skim Skimmer

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    Re: Will It Pump?

    Math errors beware. The ground level is 21" not 23".. That allows delta of 6". sorry. Its Friday!
    18' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame, 6,200 gallons + Hayward 16" S166T Sand Filter System, Hayward PowerFlo Matrix Pump, Hayward Aqua-Trol SWG, and Hayward SP1091LX Dyna-Skim Skimmer

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Will It Pump?

    Yes, that should work fine.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Will It Pump?

    thank you for your advice and wisdom!
    18' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame, 6,200 gallons + Hayward 16" S166T Sand Filter System, Hayward PowerFlo Matrix Pump, Hayward Aqua-Trol SWG, and Hayward SP1091LX Dyna-Skim Skimmer

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    Re: Will It Pump?

    Would anyone like to see pics of the install coming in a week or so? layout could provide help to others.
    18' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame, 6,200 gallons + Hayward 16" S166T Sand Filter System, Hayward PowerFlo Matrix Pump, Hayward Aqua-Trol SWG, and Hayward SP1091LX Dyna-Skim Skimmer

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Will It Pump?

    pictures are always good!
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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