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Thread: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

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    New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    We bought a house that has an ABG 24' Pool and we currently have it running using the Frog System. I'm not sure if it my inexperience in operating a pool or the system or both, but I feel like I am always chasing the necessary metrics. I am wondering the following:
    --I recently purchased all the chemicals for the Frog System……should I continue or switch to BBB?
    --I recently had my water tested at Ace Hardware and they said that my copper was high? Is that from the Frog system? If we change to BBB, should we add mineral remover?
    --I ordered a test kit (k6000) and will have it tomorrow.
    --How long after I add bleach do I 1/ have to run the filter 2/ wait to go swimming.

    Thanks for any help or guidance!
    ABG 24' Filter Cartridge 13,600 Gallons

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Welcome to TFP!!

    Well, I think this will answer your questions:

    1. Yes, get rid of the frog
    2. Copper is probably from the frog. There is no such thing as mineral remover. Once it's there, it's there - until you change water. There is sequastrant which will bind up metals so they don't stain, but they are still there and you have to continually add sequsetrant.
    3. Would that be a K-2006 test kit? if not, I'm not sure what you ordered
    4. Depends on how much you add. Generally 30 minutes of running the pump will circulate chemicals.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Yes the k-2600. I forgot to mention that the guy at the pool store said that baking soda can cake up the filter cartridge? And is that bad that I have copper in the water?

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Baking soda will not clog in the filter cartridge unless you dump it in the pump basket. Even then it will dissolve. Distribute over the pool surface while pump is running. Run for an hour afterward, brush the bottom after adding. Pool store is feeding you lies.

    Copper in the pool is bad. It may turn hair green and/or stain pool surfaces.

    # Sent from mobile device. Beware of brevity and spelling errors!
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Welcome to TFP!

    Just to back up what has already been said, yes the Frog adds copper to your water, yes copper can be a problem, and the best thing to do is remove both the mineral pac and bac pac from your frog, at least until you have a full set of test results.

    The Alkalinity Up sitting on the pool store shelf is Sodium Bicarbonate. If you look that up on Wikipedia you will see that it often goes by the street name "Baking Soda". He will literally tell you not to use baking soda and then sell you baking soda. Moral of the story: Don't Ever Listen To Pool Store Guys.

    Importantly, just because the name is BBB does not mean you necessarily need baking soda. TFPC (which is a version of BBB that we teach here) is less about the specific chemicals and more about proper testing and only adjusting what you need with the best chemical for the job. Once you get your kit run a full set of tests and post them here: FC, CC, pH, TA, CH, CYA. We will be able to help you from there.

    And seriously, empty out that Frog. I completely removed mine and the pool has never looked better.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Until I learn to use my new tester, would I be ok to get water tested at ace hardware (close to my house)? I want the kids to be able to go swimming without me worrying?
    ABG 24' Filter Cartridge 13,600 Gallons

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Quote Originally Posted by pool$123 View Post
    Until I learn to use my new tester, would I be ok to get water tested at ace hardware (close to my house)? I want the kids to be able to go swimming without me worrying?
    If you have the K-2006 then you have a perfectly good kit that is not too difficult to use, see link below for videos on some of the tests. The sooner you start working with the test kit the better, it takes abit of practice like anything, but its not overly difficult. You can always post back here for advice etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/tf100te...e=results_main
    10k-13k gallon, IG, plaster, with spa, as of 2015 the pool is 8 years old...I think...TF-100 Test Kit, pool pictures on Flickr, Test History
    Pentair: EasyTouch control system, IntelliCholor IC40 SWG, Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter 420 sq. ft., WhisperFlo filter pump, Booster 3/4 hp cleaner pump, WhisperFlo waterfall pump, Max-E-Therm heater, old Krauly pressure cleaner, Borate

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    So I did my first test tonight and it was inside so I'm not sure how much that will skew the results……..
    FC 4.4
    CC 0.8
    PH 7.8
    CYA 70
    Any guidance? I guess to get PH down to 7.4, I would need to add 3 drops which equates to over 36 fl oz of Muriatic Acid.
    ABG 24' Filter Cartridge 13,600 Gallons

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    I had cc of 0.8. Anything I could/should do?
    ABG 24' Filter Cartridge 13,600 Gallons

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Quote Originally Posted by pool$123 View Post
    I had cc of 0.8. Anything I could/should do?
    first thing is to add chlorine. With 70 CYA your chlorine should never be below 5 and you should really target 8 to make sure the sun during the days doesn't take it below 5. I might even run the FC closer to 10 for a few days and continue to watch the CC.

    You can add a little muratic acid to bring the pH a little closer to 7.5. I'm sure you will have a tendency for,pH to rise.

    When testing you can use the 10ml sample size which changes the results in increments of .5. That is close enough for us, we don't need .2 accuracy. This saves the reagents in the kit.

    How does the water look?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Your CYA is pretty high and will continue to increase as long as you keep Bac Pacs in the frog. Removing everything from the frog would be very helpful. Also if you have sunlight today you should rerun your CYA test in full sun with your back to the sun and the tube in shadow. Your CYA might be lower than 70, which would be a very good thing.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    I turned the frog to zero and will be removing the unit completely tonight. When I test, I put water into a bottle and sampled from there....is that correct? Also, when testing should filter be on or off when I sample? Isn't fc goal between 1 and 4?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Btw, thanks for all the help!
    ABG 24' Filter Cartridge 13,600 Gallons

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    I
    Quote Originally Posted by pool$123 View Post
    I turned the frog to zero and will be removing the unit completely tonight. When I test, I put water into a bottle and sampled from there....is that correct? Also, when testing should filter be on or off when I sample? Isn't fc goal between 1 and 4?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Btw, thanks for all the help!
    no, FC between 1-4 is the reason pool store advice is so notoriously bad. You must keep your FC as a ratio to your CYA level. The higher the CYA, the more FC you need.

    Check this out:
    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Should the filter be running when I get water sample
    ABG 24' Filter Cartridge 13,600 Gallons

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Quote Originally Posted by pool$123 View Post
    Should the filter be running when I get water sample
    it should run for,about 30 minutes before you collect the sample,so the water is well mixed.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Quote Originally Posted by pool$123 View Post
    I turned the frog to zero and will be removing the unit completely tonight. When I test, I put water into a bottle and sampled from there....is that correct? Also, when testing should filter be on or off when I sample? Isn't fc goal between 1 and 4?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Btw, thanks for all the help!
    FYI, I would not remove the frog, just remove the bac-pac and mineral pac for now.
    I still have mine installed, and I use it for vacations. I drilled out the mineral pac and removed all the minerals and then just use a bac pac.
    As long as you are aware of the effects of the chemicals, it works great, just not something you'd want to use continuously (the mineral pac not at all)
    Rick
    Installed June 2012 Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Cartridge Filter 100SF, 1.5HP
    Aqua Plus Smarte System - In for vacations, BBB all the way.
    Love my PVC Solar Cover Hangers

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Do the bac pac go bad because I just bought 4 or so? I did remove the frog but can easily reinstall when we go on vacation……thanks for the tip!
    ABG 24' Filter Cartridge 13,600 Gallons

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    Nope, it's 1 inch pucks in there, they last forever.

    BTW, I took one of the bac pac's when it was empty, cut in half, then filled it with 1" tabs from the store and sealed it up with electrical tape. Works great for the few times I need to use it and it's much cheaper.

    You could take those back if the store will take them.
    Rick
    Installed June 2012 Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Cartridge Filter 100SF, 1.5HP
    Aqua Plus Smarte System - In for vacations, BBB all the way.
    Love my PVC Solar Cover Hangers

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    So is the problem with the frog the mineral PAC and the expense of the bac PAC? Someone commented that if I kept the frog on my cya would stay elevated?
    ABG 24' Filter Cartridge 13,600 Gallons

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    Re: New pool owner……aaaggghhh

    The 1" tabs add CYA just like 3" tabs. They are trichlor.

    Gotta get that pool off its diet of junk food and on a low CYA diet.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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