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Thread: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    Hello,

    After nixing a pool last year we are back at it again this year and I'm hoping it might actually come to fruition. We will be buying our pool kit online and having a guy install it for us. I want to decide on as many of the details as we can before we meet with him so he'll be able to give us a more accurate estimate. So, here are the questions I have so far, if anyone might be able to help me...

    1. With a 16x38x24 or possibly a 18x39x26 pool with an 8' deep end, how big of a pump do I need? I'm sold on it being 2 speed, but the pool dealer says 1hp won't be enough, and recommends 1.5 hp. We would like to have a slide, but no other water features.

    2. How big of a sand filter would be best? I thought bigger is better, but he said a 30" filter is overkill and a 27" would be better. We have 8 people in the family, if that matters for swim load considerations.

    3. I need to decide where to put the equipment. Hopefully my crudely edited photo will attach showing the basic outline of the pool and decking. I am open to suggestions. Where the green dot is, we have an electrical panel from when the previous owners had a hot tub. I don't know if that is helpful for the new equipment pad. One thing that seems to be a problem, though, is that there is a concrete patio already there, and the plumbing would need to cross it, also crossing in front of a gate leading from the carport.

    The only other place I can think of is somewhere near the orange dot, either inside or outside the pool fence. It just seems so exposed out there. I can't go to the right of the property because our septic lines travel straight out from the back right corner of the house.

    Those are my most basic preliminary questions for now. I appreciate any help you can give me!
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    You shouldn't be listening to this person. They are not giving you good advice.

    1) Without the slide, 1 HP is more than enough. Slides vary all over the place, from needing hardly any water to needing several HP just for the slide.
    2) Larger is better. The difference isn't huge, but a larger filter will let you go longer between backwashing and will be just slightly more energy efficient.
    3) Keep in mind three constraints: near the pool (short pipes), near the main house electrical panel (short electrical run) (and possibly near gas meter if you are getting gas heat), and far from sleeping areas and outside talking areas (noise issues). Typically you need to compromise one or more of those, but that is the ideal.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    My survey is not that much different than yours. I initially wanted to put my equipment where your green dot is, figuring that it was close to the house and the electrical panel and natural gas source. Would be cheaper to run less wiring/gas line.

    My PB suggested that we move the equipment to a spot more like where your orange dot is due to the noise level that the equipment creates. So we took his suggestion. I will say that gas line is expensive and wire is expensive (I ran 4-#6 THHN for a sub-panel and 1" gas line 75 feet) but in the end it is well worth it. You cannot even hear our equipment from the house or the pool even.

    If getting to that orange dot is a problem can you out an equipment pad around the corner to the right?? Are their windows/bedrooms over there etc??

    And I am with Jason on the filter. The bigger the better. As for the pump, 2 speed is good, size will depend on the slide requirements.


    30x20 vinyl IG, Hayward SD60 with Pentair Dynamo 340219 2HP pump, Compupool CPSC24 SWG, Hayward H200FDN heater. APC automatic pool cover.
    Central Illinois

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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    Thank you, both, for your helpful replies. We haven't had the utilities marked yet, but aside from cost of running the electrical, I don't think that getting to the orange dot would be a problem. It does seem to have its advantages, but then my question would be how to hide it/keep it out of the elements. What did you do for your setup, bdex? Unfortunately, moving the equipment around the corner to the right isn't feasible because that part of the house is all floor to ceiling windows lining a walkway/patio and there isn't a good spot. We will not be needing gas.

    The slide I was thinking about is this one, although not necessarily from this site: Typhoon Pool Slide | Royal Swimming Pools.

    How would I determine how much extra pump, if any, it would need? We would like a salt water pool, so a plastic slide like this caught my eye. I'm open to others that might suit our needs without needing a bigger pump, but I don't want to spend more money than what this one costs.

    As for a salt water system, would a 40k cell be enough for this size pool? Being on the the north side of the house, it would be in full sun all day.

    Thanks again for your advice. I certainly trust answers on this forum more than the online pool sales guy.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    for that size pool I think you would need a 60K SWG, your close to 25/35K gallons depending on depth and shape
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    Yes, I think you're right about the SWG size. It seems like my brand options in the 60K sizes are limited though. From what I've read briefly, the CircuPool si60 or si60+ are a good, reliable value. Does anyone know, if without automation, can they still be used effectively?
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    Welcome to TFP.

    I just looked back and realized you messaged me about our build (I recall a very delayed reply I made). I'm not good at advice on the electrical and gas placement. But I think the build is a decision you won't regret. It has been a great investment in our family life.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    Thank you, Aimee! Yes, before the pool idea got dropped last year I had been doing research and really admired your pool. I really like the liner over the full width steps idea, but our builder isn't comfortable doing them and I'm not prepared to insist and take the consequences of a poor end result. So we will go with those 8' plastic steps in grey to help the color blend better.

    I'm sorry for not responding to your message... When it arrived, the pool was already a no-go, and I figured pouring over pool plans that weren't going to happen wasn't healthy for my psyche! But this pool idea has new life, so I'm being cautiously optimistic and doing my homework in case all the pieces can fall into place. Thank you for your encouragement!
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    We don't have a liner over our steps. We went with fiberglass steps in the shallo end and a swimout bench in the deep end which is a decision I like as we have no ladder then.

    Honestly. My build was all impulse decisions. Once I had my husband sold on the idea.....it was installed and full in less than 2months. I can't remember the exact day he finally agreed but I recall the builder we went with coming out on Father's Day to give us a quote and we were swimming by the end of July. I think I'm the exception as I read all the "planning" posts here. I just wasn't interested in the details.....lol.

    Luckily we have been happy with everything. I can't think of any regrets.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    Ah, yes, now I remember! I went back and looked at your photos and remember that I liked it a lot because your setup is pretty similar to what I'm envisioning for us, although we only have 1 acre to work with. Would you mind if I pm'd you about some particulars of your setup?
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    Not at all
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    You can use just about any SWG with just about any automation system, but you don't get remote control over the SWG from the automation system unless the brands match. There is very little you might want to do remotely with a SWG, so that isn't usually much of an issue.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    Thanks, JasonLion. In reading on this forum about the 60K SWGs, I thought I read that with the pentair systems, if you don't automate when it's oversized, the adjustments that the system makes itself aren't precise enough to get the benefit of the larger system. Is that a correct understanding? So that's what made me start looking into automation, where it wasn't on my radar before.

    We aren't really planning and don't need anything fancy, but if automation just makes something work more easily, it might be worth considering. With a SWG, slide, and maybe some lights, is automation worth it? If so, any recommendations for the best bang for our buck, considering our simple needs?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thank you, Aimee... One will be on it's way soon.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    You might want to look into the autopilot digital ( the one rated for 67000 gallons I think)
    1200 Sq Ft 41,000 Gal. Gunite, JANDY SVRS VS pump, JANDY JXI 400,000 BTU, Polaris 280 w/ 3/4 BP, Rockwall and Grotto (w/6 jets and blower), 2 JANDY Lam Jets, 2 LED Bubblers, 5 Ledlights, AQUALINK P16 RS, 90% Quartz, SWF 185 GMP BP, SWF 125 BP, Levelor K1100 Autofill, AP Digital SWG, 2 skim and 5 returns, and mostly 3 inch piping

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely check that out.

    Here is another question, but I didn't know if I should start a new thread or not. It pertains to groundwater.

    Our yard is a few feet of clay topsoil with limestone underneath. We have terrible drainage in our flat yard and all the rain Dallas has been having has made this all the more apparent. I am concerned about groundwater around the pool and want to be proactive addressing it during the build, rather than after the fact.

    Would a French drain under the main drain connected to the pump with a closable valve be enough to solve any groundwater problems? Or would well points around the pool be better? Any alternatives to those options? I would assume that with our normally hot summers the water table wouldn't always be so high, but it seems like the ground can get pretty saturated when the weather is bad.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    Could anyone please help me with my question, or should I start a new thread? From above:

    Our yard is a few feet of clay topsoil with limestone underneath. We have terrible drainage in our flat yard and all the rain Dallas has been having has made this all the more apparent. I am concerned about groundwater around the pool and want to be proactive addressing it during the build, rather than after the fact.

    Would a French drain under the main drain connected to the pump with a closable valve be enough to solve any groundwater problems? Or would well points around the pool be better? Any alternatives to those options? I would assume that with our normally hot summers the water table wouldn't always be so high, but it seems like the ground can get pretty saturated when the weather is bad.

    Also, is one wellpoint enough? Should it be inside, or outside of the decking?
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: True-L Inground Vinyl planning stage questions

    The steel wall kit I'm looking at has several wall options. We may not be able to do the cantilever decking due to cost, but if we don't, is it still a good idea to use the walls with the top deck supports with the basic bullnose coping? The deck would be one pour, and I thought having the extra wall support would be a good thing, but now I'm not sure. Does anyone have any insight they can offer? Thanks.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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