Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    504

    copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    the plumber gave us an option of copper pipes or pvc where the turn on valve attaches to the house for the 2-3 feet that is sticking out of the ground. he said most people get pvc but a few people ask for copper. he asked us because we were inquiring to make sure the hose bibs we got put on as an add-on in the backyard were going to be copper instead of pvc on the part that is sticking out of the ground. we told him copper until i thought about the folks who try to clean their pools with copper. if the water passes through a copper pipe is that similar to the copper cleaning systems and so should we stick with pvc so to not effect ph or getting green water or anything like that? thanku!

    Moderator note - this thread contains posts merged from two,different threads so similar questions/answers may occur
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Menifee/CA
    Posts
    194

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    I really don't see how 3 feet of copper could effect any ph, and definitely not alter the appearance of the water.

    Personally, I think copper would be the better choice. It's more durable for outdoor conditions, pvc can get pretty brittle when exposed to sunlight. Copper is also stronger, where a good smack on pvc is liable to crack it.
    13K Gallon IG Pool/Spa -- First time pool owners -- Completed in 2015 Caribbean Blue Pebble Tec Pentair 4000 Series 47 sq. ft. D.E. Filter Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump Pentair SWG Jandy LXi Heater 400,000 BTU S.R. Smith Typhoon Slide Pentair LED 12v Lights Dolphin Nautilus Robotic Cleaner TF-100 Test Kit
    Our Build Thread

  3. Back To Top    #3
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    Copper pipe is fine for carry municipal water that is going to be used to fill the pool. But copper should not be used to carry pool water if you can avoid it. The risk with copper is that very low PH can erode copper out of the pipe and into the water. Municipal water will never have very low PH. But pool water can occasionally be very low PH.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    504

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    thx to both of u! JasonLion, I'm a bit confused. r u saying that you would or wouldn't use the copper pipe to carry water for the 3 feet above ground connection. we live in phoenix, so have hard water with high PH. we r also installing a salt water pool with UV. first pool for us so not sure if the salt/UV make a difference. thanku!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Isaac-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    6,711

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    I was about to ask about your pH, around here we have very soft, acidic water with a pH in the mid 6.? range. Houses plumbed with copper pipes start having pin hole failures after about 25 years.

    UV is a complete waste of money on a outdoor residential pool, you get more than enough UV from sunlight particularly in AZ for breaking down CC compounds, and it is also nearly useless about killing pathogens since only the things that pass through the UV chamber are killed, not any of those nasty things that may be clinging to the sides of your pool. In addition to all that UV systems break down chlorine which just adds to your need for chlorine production from your SWG and shortens its cell life.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  6. Back To Top    #6
    n240sxguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Benton, KY
    Posts
    1,800

    copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    He was saying don't use copper for any of the pool plumbing. It is fine for the water that is being added to the pool. If you used it in pool plumbing, and you let your ph drop below 7, it could leech into your pool water. The salt is a good choice. That's what mine is. The uv is unnecessary expense. It doesn't do anything that the chlorine isn't already doing, so you shouldn't waste your money on it. They do serve a purpose on indoor pools though.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    504

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    Isaac-1, yikes. our house is copper and i thought that was better as far as not busting. i've had people tell me before that we should be glad our pipes r copper. especially with the heat here in phoenix. i had an aquaponic system and am trying to remember the PH. i think it was closer to 8, just over 8 in think.
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    504

    copper pipes and a salt water system-should i have he plumber put pvc instead?

    the plumber gave us an option of copper pipes or pvc where the turn on valve attaches to the house for the 2-3 feet that is sticking out of the ground. he said most people get pvc but a few people ask for copper. he asked us because we were inquiring to make sure the hose bibs we got put on as an add-on in the backyard were going to be copper instead of pvc on the part that is sticking out of the ground. we told him copper until i thought about the folks who try to clean their pools with copper. if the water passes through a copper pipe is that similar to the copper cleaning systems and so should we stick with pvc so to not effect ph or getting green water or anything like that? thanku!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Patrick_B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Midland TX
    Posts
    15,001

    Re: copper pipes and a salt water system-should i have he plumber put pvc instead?

    I would go with PVC.
    TFP Moderator
    Essential Links:
    ABC's Of Pool Chemistry, Test Kits, SLAM Your Pool
    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    504

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    interesting. something else to think about. someone posted a question somewhere on line to see if copper piping would last for piping on a pool and this was one response.:
    Low pH causes more damage than chlorine on copper plumbing.
    Nonetheless, high chlorine levels, sulfur compounds, metal scavengers and the high salt levels from the spent chemicals are all erosive to copper piping. Flow velocity is also a key factor in determining the rate of erosion. At 7gpm expect no more than 10 years life for 1" type K (very heavy) copper, 5 years or less for type M (typical low budget) copper. Copper pipe is not recommended for pool plumbing. Cupronickel alloys that do not contan zinc or tin are corrosion resistant in pool water, as are 300 and 400 series stainless steels, some more so than others.
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

  11. Back To Top    #11

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: copper pipes and a salt water system-should i have he plumber put pvc instead?

    The copper will have little effect on your chemistry. I am not sure how much pipe is "sticking out of the ground" but I would still go with pvc ending with a brass spigot.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorsgal View Post
    Nonetheless, high chlorine levels, sulfur compounds, metal scavengers and the high salt levels from the spent chemicals are all erosive to copper piping.
    While true, none of this normally matters in a swimming pool. At typical pool levels the corrosion rates for all of these factors will be so low that it makes no difference over the lifetime of the pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorsgal View Post
    Cupronickel alloys that do not contan zinc or tin are corrosion resistant in pool water
    Cupronickel is much more resistant to salt corrosion, but as mentioned salt corrosion is not a real problem at typical pool salt levels (but a big problem at ocean water salt levels). In a similar vein, cupronickel is still at risk from low PH, just as regular copper is.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    504

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    i'm now realizing that the 3 hose bibs that i had them put in the yard are also attached to the same line that adds water to the pool. the are all "T"ed off and on the same line. those 3 bibs r in full sun so i think i really need copper for those is it ok that they are all attached to the same line that is adding water into the pool?

    as far as the main line that is adding water to the pool, unless I'm missing something, the consensus mostly seems to be that pvc is preferred but if we go with copper we'll probably be fine due to the water from the house being high enough that it shouldn't pull any copper into the pool?

    thanku!!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

  14. Back To Top    #14
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    Yes, copper pipe on the fill line is fine. PVC is fine also as long as any of it that is above ground is painted.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    504

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    to make things easier, then, i'll get copper since that is what they left to jobsite to go and get and return tomorrow or thursday to install. PVC sounds like another small thing to maintain (keeping it painted). not a big deal, but if it doesn't matter either way, copper won't break so easily so I'll go with that. now if they try to charge me more $ then I'll consider PVC.

    i'm curious with this topic, though, how the copper water treatment systems work-they say it can be used instead of chlorine. anyone ever use one or know anything about those systems? how much copper are they using and is that different because it sits in the pool or something like that? i read some negatives on it, that it doesn't work in AZ or could cause the probs turning the pool colors and ruining the pebbletec.

    thx!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

  16. Back To Top    #16
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    Copper that is dissolved in the water is a fairly effective algaecide, but is not a sanitizer. That means it kills algae, but is not effective at killing bacteria and viruses that need to be killed to keep a swimming pool safe. Unfortunately, copper at levels high enough to be effective against algae is also high enough to cause stains. Copper stains are unsightly and somewhere between difficult and impossible to remove from the pool (depending on the kind of pool surface you have).

    Copper pipes don't normally dissolve into the water unless the PH is dangerously low.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    504

    Re: copper pipes or pvc-will copper pipes for auto-fill... cause probs

    do u know how copper is used as an algaecide in those systems or r they a hoax?

    come to think of it, all the pipes in my house r copper so another 3 feet of copper wouldn't matter anyway.

    thx!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •