CYA disappeard ove the winter?

[Texas Splash]

Re: Failure at Slamming?

That was my thought as well after reading the description - ammonia. Grrrrrrr!

 

[pooldv]

Re: Getting ready to SLAM: How much chlorine to have on hand?

Yes, likely that the high CYA was converted to ammonia. It is a phenomenon that we see occasionally. On the bright side you don't need to drain 3/4s of your pool to lower CYA. Stay with it, it will turn the corner.

 

[poolnoob.ca]

Re: Getting ready to SLAM: How much chlorine to have on hand?

Yep, it's only been one day, sounds like you need a few gallons of POP! (pool owner patience)

 

[Patrick_B]

Re: Failure at Slamming?

Whether it is Ammonia or something else, you will have to keep pouring the Chlorine to it until you are able to hold and maintain a residual. You need not worry about the liner until the FC is higher than SLAM value for your Cya. It is FC that will bleach the liner, and it is only FC that can get you where you need to be. Even though you had MPS, it has the hall marks of Ammonia with the fast consumption of FC and very high CC, but FC is the answer. It may be a ton, but it the only thing that will get you where you need to be. You will have to add Chlorine until you are able to hold and maintain FC residual. Outside of drain and refill, this is what you will have to face. If you decide on a refill, take it in increments of thirds, until you replace the entire volume. I am not suggesting you must do this, but these are your only options sorry to say.

 

[kimkats]

Re: Getting ready to SLAM: How much chlorine to have on hand?

Hit and hit it hard as often as you can. I am betting you are dealing with ammonia. At the beginning it will eat your FC as fast you pour it in! It will show in your CC test.

Once you start to notice the CC going down you will know you are getting ahead of it. It will get easier after that.

Good job getting your test kit. THAT alone will help you save money and time once you get rid of the ammonia.

Let us know how else we can help!

Kim

 

[poolnoob.ca]

Re: Failure at Slamming?

but still continue to add the prescribed amounts of chlorine, eventually it will break down whatever is dropping it so fast. don't add a nuclear amount like 10 gallons, just whatever your slam dosage is

 

[PolareNJ]

Re: Failure at Slamming?

Thank you all. Here are some answers to your questions:
We were using 12% liquid chlorine at the rate of about 2.5 gallons a day to get us to a FC of 4 in the beginning, and then only to 2 - 2.5 ppm. We did use tri-clor pucks in the chlorinator while we were away for a week, and this increased the CYA to present level. I was testing with the TF-100 kit for about two weeks before slam.
Water is clear, can easily see bottom, but does 'sparkle' like it did before the slam began. this may be from the chlorine itself as it gets a bit cloudy for a minute when added to the water. There was a slight 'dust' (algae) when we brushed the pool bottom after the first dose of chlorine last night, but it was minimal. Otherwise no mold or algae visible.
This season we used 12% liquid chloride, the tri-chlor pucks, 3 bags of MPS and 7 gallons of muriatic acid for the high opening alkalinity.
We open the pool ourselves and there was about 1 gallon of RV antifreeze that probably got into the pool.
Only use a cover in the winter. Pool is in total sun for 11 hours a day.
No spraying of fertilizer or pesticides near the pool. Lawn is fertilized when pool is still covered in the spring.
I just tested the pool after two hours of no additions of chlorine and FC is down to 3. Pool is in full sun.
Have not tested for ammonia, but will try to get a test kit.

This is our first slam of the season.

I have some questions I hope you can answer:
Should I continue adding chlorine all day? Again pool is in constant sun.
How often to test and add? Every hour? This is wearing us down.
How much to add? Should I add 5 gallons at a time until the ammonia (we think) is gone?
About tonight: We can't stay up all night long again. How should we handle this?

I read another thread from a person who has been fighting ammonia for two weeks and am truly frightened. could we be adding 36 gallons a day to this pool for such a long period of time?

Thanks for your help.

 

[kimkats]

Re: Failure at Slamming?

We open the pool ourselves and there was about 1 gallon of RV antifreeze that probably got into the pool.

That was a big problem with another pool owner. It took him a long time to get it cleared out. It happened last year and again this year before he and another person figured out what was going on. I will have to see if they have come up with a way to keep it from happening again.

You test and add as you can.

Use pool math and the CYA/FC chart to tell you how much to add.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

Your goal is to keep your FC at or just above your SLAM level for your CYA level.

Overnight-get some sleep and start again when you wake up. I am not one to lose sleep over anything so..................

You can do this! TFP works. It just takes time and bleach!

Kim

 

[PolareNJ]

Re: Failure at Slamming?

Thanks, Kim. Our slam dosage is 336 oz of 12% chlorine for a FC = 16, and if we use that, the FC goes down. We have not been able to achieve FC at Slam level, no matter how we try. That's why we're adding the 4 - 5 gallons an hour. Is our thinking incorrect?

 

[PolareNJ]

I'm so mixed up. The advice is to use the slam dosage to get the FC to 16 (2.5 gallons) , but no matter how we try (adding 4 - 5 gallons an hour) , we can't raise the FC because of the ammonia. In the meantime, the combined chlorine is so high that it's unpleasant to even be NEAR the pool. So, should we just add the 2.5 gallons? Is adding more actually hurting us?

 

[pooldv]

Testing and adding every 2 hours or so is good. And definitely sleep at night. Test, enter the FC number in NOW and 16 in target and add what Pool math says. No real reason to add a lot more than that each time.

 

[PolareNJ]

Ammonia test.

I bought test strips for ammonia at the pet store and it looks like we have a whopping 6 ppm! I would think we have to deal with this first before getting to the actual SLAM. So I'll just keep adding 2.5 gallons (dosage to get to FC = 16) each hour in the evening and night until bedtime.

Anyone have any idea on how long the ammonia may stick around?

 

[cowboycasey]

WELL, That is ALOT of ammonia.... Now you know where that 170 CYA went over the winter.... From what we have seen all the sudden you fc will start holding, I dont think anyone has had more ammonia than you...

 

[Donldson]

It will take about 60 ppm of chlorine to destroy 6 ppm of ammonia. You can test and add as often as every half hour while you are taking care of the ammonia, it reacts VERY quickly.

From my HTC One via Tapatalk

 

[cowboycasey]

It will take about 60 ppm of chlorine to destroy 6 ppm of ammonia. You can test and add as often as every half hour while you are taking care of the ammonia, it reacts VERY quickly.

From my HTC One via Tapatalk

so about 14 gallons of bleach before it starts holding, "or so"

the crazzzzy part is how many gallons have already put in = PPM ammonia

Guess = 16 ppm ammonia???

 

[tim5055]

Ammonia does take a lot of chlorine to clear. But, it really is the same as the SLAM in general, keep adding FC. As I've seen Richard say numerous times, with ammonia it seems like it consumes the chlorine as fast as you pour it in.

 

[chem geek]

There is no mystery here. Your starting CYA of 173 ppm (if that's right -- sounds like a pool store number which may have been inaccurate) if it went to zero via bacterial conversion to ammonia would produce 57 ppm ammonia requiring at least 460 ppm FC cumulatively added to get rid of. Fortunately in your case some of the ammonia may have either outgassed or been further converted (by other bacteria) to nitrogen gas. This is described technically in the thread Degradation of Cyanuric Acid (CYA).

 

[PolareNJ]

Thanks to all for the information and for calming my frazzled nerves. We worked this evening and tonight adding 12% chlorine according to Pool Math and Donaldson's advice to test and add every half hour. I am happy to report that after hovering at 1.5 ppm for the first 7.5 gallons of chlorine added, the FC started to steadily increase and after 20 gallons is 5 ppm. Cowboycasey, you were spot on: improvements in FC were most noticeable after the first 15 gallons of chlorine were added. Tested the ammonia again after 15 gallons of chlorine were added and it looked like a new level of 3 ppm (initially 6 ppm). This still seems high, but it could be the sensitivity of the strips themselves or the fact that I was reading the strip by flashlight and the gradients were hard to differentiate. I'll do a new test in the morning. We will continue tomorrow with the SLAM, increasing the FC to the shock level of 16 and maintaining until the criteria for ending the SLAM are met.

Thanks again! Goodnight!

 

[Scuba_Steve]

One of the issues I am guessing that your having is that you had a CYA reading before you started this.

Most pools with ammonia have 0 CYA left.

Therefore once the FC is used up by the ammonia, the remaining CYA converting bacteria still had something to snack on and it multiplied. So every time you took a break, the ammonia just partially bounded back.

I would bet in the end, you will no longer have a CYA reading...

Just a wild guess though.

 

[cowboycasey]

That is awesome and it will be great if all your cya is gone, you can raise it exactly where you need it and not have to empty your water [emoji1] ...