I shot an inquiry to pHin about the nature of the chlorine pods, asking if they contained CYA. Here's the response I got:
Unfortunate.
pool monitor
- Thread starter brandon1
- Start date
No, not surprised I guess, just disappointed. Particularly since it seems they know their product will have a cumulative effect on CYA levels and when they get too high, there needs to be a discussion on how to deal with it. Why not just prevent the problem in the first place?
And they ask me why I drink. Geez.
Here is a question, what do they consider "too high"? We know that the typical 1-3 ppm FC starts to become unrealistic around 30 CYA, but a lot of the pool store test results people have shown here shown "acceptable ranges" up to 150 and even 200!
That's a really good question. It seems anyone not exposed to the TFP method is blissfully ignorant of the effects of CYA. When we first encountered the problems caused by high CYA levels (which brought me here to begin with), we had our water tested at the local pool store. We had a reading of around 140 and the guy said it was a bit on the high side but no big deal. By that time I'd already done a bunch of reading here and knew better. Never went back to those guys for testing again.
For some pools it just works. I have a friend who has had a pool for 20ish years in South Florida. Until,this week he has never owned a test kit other than a basic pH/OTO. He generally leaves one puck in a floater all the time and suppliments it with 12.5 from the pool store.
Testing at the pool store every week or two.
I convinced him to get a TF100.
His numbers last night were
FC 3
Ph 8.0
CH 350
CYA 50
I'm going to assume when he does the CYA test in daylight it will probably drop to 30-40.
So, for no real testing he is in pretty good shape as are a lot of folks out there. TFP works, but other things do on some pools as well.
TFP is not necessarily rigid on doing this or that, but in passing on knowledge. We have recommendations that we know work, but everyone is free to use the knowledge in their own way to make it work for them.
Testing at the pool store every week or two.
I convinced him to get a TF100.
His numbers last night were
FC 3
Ph 8.0
CH 350
CYA 50
I'm going to assume when he does the CYA test in daylight it will probably drop to 30-40.
So, for no real testing he is in pretty good shape as are a lot of folks out there. TFP works, but other things do on some pools as well.
TFP is not necessarily rigid on doing this or that, but in passing on knowledge. We have recommendations that we know work, but everyone is free to use the knowledge in their own way to make it work for them.
@jfgreco Any news on Sutro? They seem to be holding to a summer '16 ship date? Their web site intentionally de-emphasizes any requirement (reading the tea leaves from this thread?) to buy chemicals, which would make them a non-starter for me. I'm guessing it's Wi-Fi, which gives me concern over battery life. But my real concern is sensor accuracy - what's the point if it doesn't give useful data? If not ORP, what technology would it be and how accurate for a device with a BOM cost under $200.
- May 25, 2011
- 59
- Pool Size
- 30000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Spoke with Ravi @ Sutro tonight. They are working on their sensors to make them the best possible solution they can build. I really like they are trying to make the best possible device and not just slapping together what already exists. They are shipping preorders this year with a bigger launch later this year. They have some good stuff in the pipeline. If I hear more I will update.
I hear the phrase "working to make it the best we possibly can" a lot on Kickstarter projects. Nearly every time it means "turns out what we promised costs way more than we anticipated and we are buying time." A lot of time they are buying time because they thought a big company would buy them out for a few million dollars and are anxiously waiting for that call.
Seems to have become a pretty common situation today, some young engineers think they can come up with an idea, sell it, and use that money to become the next Elon Musk. Maybe I am wrong, but looks a lot like the ones I have seen recently.
From my HTC One via Tapatalk
Seems to have become a pretty common situation today, some young engineers think they can come up with an idea, sell it, and use that money to become the next Elon Musk. Maybe I am wrong, but looks a lot like the ones I have seen recently.
From my HTC One via Tapatalk
- May 25, 2011
- 59
- Pool Size
- 30000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I totally hear where you are coming from. As they say the proof is in the pudding.
Sutro is shipping to their preorder people. So they have devices at least. They said they are still working out their sensors and are swapping devices out as they refine it. As I said they are looking to open later this year to the general public. Could be interesting if they do make something truly different.
It seemed like they are trying to build an ecosystem for their brand. From the actual device to their smart phone application to acquiring chemicals if you so choose. There isn't a requirement to use their chemicals as there is with some of the others competing in this same space. But they are looking to leverage Amazon prime for their distribution to get you chemicals quicker. No idea on actual quality of the chemicals but hopefully they are of good quality and affordable.
I went ahead and pre-ordered a unit (several weeks ago), but I've not heard of any units shipping out. I'm also part of the beta program, which as far as I can tell, is just related to chemical consultation and potentially the app.
Not a pool sensor but I was considering ordering this for taking readings around the house.
http://www.amazon.com/SensorPush-Wireless-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Android/dp/B01AEQ9X9I/
Sutro looks great but I think this is very hard to do all that well.
http://www.amazon.com/SensorPush-Wireless-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Android/dp/B01AEQ9X9I/
Sutro looks great but I think this is very hard to do all that well.
billyz
0
With the opening on the back of that I don't think it would be a good idea to drop it in a pool. Around the house uses could be interesting, but I think I would keep it away from water.
I just learned about Sutro and the little detail there is on TechCrunch. If I understand the premise correctly the system should work with the BBB method. Any word from Ravi if the BBB method is encouraged/supported and if they have a subscription for BBB?
Additionally, does anybody have experience if the system shows you more than pH? Will I be able to see chlorine level, hardness, cyanuric, etc so that I can use BBB with Sutro?
Just a Sutro update, if anyone cares. They delayed delivery to summer 2017 but are cashing in pre-orders now. At $300 ($225 pre-order) the product looks promising. But the need for cash flow is concerning, so whether they'll ever deliver is problematic.
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
No surprised in the least. The system for creating new products exists for a reason. You come up with an idea, you create a prototype, and if you need help you sell it to investors who help you set up manufacturing and marketing and in return get a piece of the company. Then, after you have a working product you bring it to market. The investors had to be friends/relatives or "qualified investors" who have a net worth of at least 1 million dollars (you know, money to lose). They took some risk but if it was successful they got a return on it.
With crowdfunding, you come up with an idea and then sell it to people who may have no clue whether the idea can possibly work. IGG is built on these: Skarp laser razor, Batteriser, Triton breathing apparatus, Waterseer, Solar Roadways, Skully helmet, Airing, etc, etc. Big promises, bad engineering, millions of dollars from people who will never see a return on the investment. It isn't seeking funding, it is ripping off someone who thinks they are "pre-ordering" a product rather than funding R&D for some potential flight of fancy. Even the most successful business I can point to from crowdfunding, Pebble, is looking to sell to Fitbit for a wash after debts are considered.
As for the product itself, IF it is released it is very unlikely to provide consistent accurate results at that price. It appears that the company is realizing this and is working hard to create an app that won't require the monitor and bring in money based on chemical sales through the app and referrals to pool techs. Seems pHin is still in pre-order after over a year as well, continuing to collect free money.
Oh, I just saw that even a month ago Ravi replied to a comment on an Aqua Magazine article questioning the realism of his product. He claims the delay is because of, "the move to develop core technology that the pool industry hasn't seen before (which we've been developing for the past 1.5 years)." Ah yes, the custom technology that nobody else has access to being designed by some crowdfunded startup that will allow them to do what the experts say is impossible at their price point. Where have I heard that before? Every single one of the busted crowdfunding companies I listed above...
- May 25, 2011
- 59
- Pool Size
- 30000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
As it delays more and more one can't think that it won't see the light of day. Or won't meet expectations.
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I am almost 100% certain it will not meet expectations even if it does ever come out.
No way it will work with the methods that we teach here which are fundamentally based on accurate test results.
No way it will work with the methods that we teach here which are fundamentally based on accurate test results.
- Jul 16, 2012
- 7,211
- Pool Size
- 27000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
"Joe" left a review of their generic app he received along with their $11.95 test kit. The highlight of the review was that he liked the app because it reminded him to test his water every few weeks. Nice!
- May 23, 2015
- 24,450
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I would have requested my money back 
However, considering they probably blew through any cash on-hand they have, I doubt they would agree. Time to start thinking about notifying the State Attorney General in Florida about this one....
However, considering they probably blew through any cash on-hand they have, I doubt they would agree. Time to start thinking about notifying the State Attorney General in Florida about this one....Similar threads
