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Thread: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

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    New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Studied the site a bit in advance and did my homework a bit. Hopefully these details can help you, help me, fix my pool!

    Details I know that will be asked for:
    Size: 21' AG Pool
    Pump: Hayward
    Filter: Hayward (Sand)

    Tested with: Taylor K-2006
    FC: 20 ppm
    pH: 6.6
    TA: 80 ppm
    CH: 400 ppm
    CYA: 100
    Saturation: appx. (-0.9)

    So, my pool is a beautiful cloudy blue...not clear sadly. But, it did start off looking like a green swamp/fishing pond. So, I'm making some progress. I know pH is way low & CYA is way high. But, I have no idea where I really need to start. I've been scooping leaves, brushing, vacuuming (to waste), backwash/rinse, and skimming the top for about 3 days now. But, the cloudiness looks about the same since it turned blue, from green.

    Products I have been using:
    Clorox Shock Blue: 12 total tubes (12 lbs)(Stopped after day 2...when I learned about this site)
    Clorox pH UP: 1.5 containers (6 lbs I believe it equates to)
    Clorox Calcium Hardness Increaser: Appx. 1/4 of the container (seems to have got it balanced)
    Clorox pH Protect: Appx. 1/4 of the container (TA is in range, but on low side I realize)
    Clorox Chlorine Stabilizer: Appx. 1/4 of the container (I don't know if it's done anything)
    Clorox Active 99 3" Tablets: 2 in floater
    Clorox Water Clarifier 32 oz: 1 bottle (I don't know if it's done anything)

    Hopefully this info can help someone, help me. If you need anymore info, please let me know.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    I'd suggest water replacement early and just simplify your pool care with bleach, bleach, maybe some MA and borax at times, but more bleach.
    You've had to have spent a fortune on those chemicals and perhaps needed none of them.

    Sooooooo....my suggestion is -Start reading the Pool School articles about the ABCs and get the FAS-DPD chlorine test if your kit doesn't include it (link in my siggy) and this will help jump start you on to the right track without putting in other chemicals that have unwanted side effects.

    Can you mix 50% pool water with 50% tap water, then use this to test your CYA with. Your CYA might be higher than you can actually work with and doing an early water exchange instead of trying to compensate with extra chlorine would be best.

    Questions welcome ...and the smart folks will be around to help shortly I'm sure
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Yes, the Taylor K-2006 has a FAS-DPD test. First test I ran.
    I've read everything and done pool math...by it's data, it says I need 3 gal bleach (39 FC needed to shock), near 4.5 lbs of Soda Ash (pH from 6.6 to 7.5 and TA from 80-130) The TA will be a tad high after this, but not crazy (says 100-120 is desirable) These 2 things should fix most of the balance issues. CH will still be high and CYA I don't know.
    I've backwashed 10% out probably 3 times already and refilled with clean. Do you think I need to just continue dumping/refilling a bit longer before adding the Bleach and Soad Ash??

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Welcome!

    Sounds like you've been pool-stored. I'll put some comments in red for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by G_Chaffin View Post
    Studied the site a bit in advance and did my homework a bit. Hopefully these details can help you, help me, fix my pool!

    Details I know that will be asked for:
    Size: 21' AG Pool
    Pump: Hayward
    Filter: Hayward (Sand)

    Tested with: Taylor K-2006 Excellent choice. I suggest ordering someFAS-DPD refills now.
    FC: 20 ppm Too low to kill algae with 100 CYA
    pH: 6.6 Too low, danger of etching heater. Irritates skin and eyes.
    TA: 80 ppm Fine.
    CH: 400 ppm A bit high.
    CYA: 100 Too high
    Saturation: appx. (-0.9)

    So, my pool is a beautiful cloudy blue...not clear sadly. But, it did start off looking like a green swamp/fishing pond. So, I'm making some progress. I know pH is way low & CYA is way high. But, I have no idea where I really need to start. I've been scooping leaves, brushing, vacuuming (to waste), backwash/rinse, and skimming the top for about 3 days now. But, the cloudiness looks about the same since it turned blue, from green.

    Products I have been using:
    Clorox Shock Blue: 12 total tubes (12 lbs)(Stopped after day 2...when I learned about this site) Dichlor mostly. Adds CYA and lowers pH along with adding chlorine.
    Clorox pH UP: 1.5 containers (6 lbs I believe it equates to) Sodium Carbonate. Right stuff, but overpriced washing soda is all it is.
    Clorox Calcium Hardness Increaser: Appx. 1/4 of the container (seems to have got it balanced) Your vinyl pool doesn't need Calcium. Wasted money.
    Clorox pH Protect: Appx. 1/4 of the container (TA is in range, but on low side I realize) Overpriced Baking Soda. Your TA is okay right now anyway.
    Clorox Chlorine Stabilizer: Appx. 1/4 of the container (I don't know if it's done anything) CYA. That's why yours is so high.
    Clorox Active 99 3" Tablets: 2 in floater Adds CYA you don't need, lowers pH you also don't need. Adds chlorine too slowly to eradicate algae and clear the cloudiness.
    Clorox Water Clarifier 32 oz: 1 bottle (I don't know if it's done anything) Snake Oil. Won't help at all as long as algae is still growing in the water. As soon as some clumps and falls, more replaces it.

    Hopefully this info can help someone, help me. If you need anymore info, please let me know.
    So now you're thinking, "Great! I messed everything up! Just tell me how to fill this mess!"

    What you need is the Shock Level And Maintain process.

    The biggest problem is that your CYA is so high. The best way to fix it is by draining about half the water out and refilling it. Be grateful you aren't under water restrictions like we are in California. I just hope you aren't on a well.

    Once the water has been diluted 50% or so, you let it mix well and take some more readings. Then you fix the pH. The low pH is easy to fix, if it doesn't come up all by itself when you refill. And then you raise the FC level with bleach. Just plain bleach or it's more concentrated cousin, pool chlorine. Sometimes sold as liquid shock. Sodium Hypochlorite is the ingredient you want. You'll be adding a lot of bleach and frequently. It will take enormous quantities initially, but it should slow down after a couple days.

    Some inspirational threads.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    My dad told me on day 2. "Sounds like you need to drain it about half way. Should fix a lot of your problems just doing that." Guess I should've listened. We did have a huge in ground pool growing up that was always crystal clear without help from anyone.
    No one told me what to buy, I just figured I'd buy a portion of each at the beginning of start up so I'd be ready for anything.

    So, from what I gather: Drain - Refill - Let mix - Retest.
    Fix (in this order): pH - FC
    Then: Shock but not with a shock product, but with bleach.

    Does this sound right?

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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Quote Originally Posted by G_Chaffin View Post
    My dad told me on day 2. "Sounds like you need to drain it about half way. Should fix a lot of your problems just doing that." Guess I should've listened. We did have a huge in ground pool growing up that was always crystal clear without help from anyone.
    No one told me what to buy, I just figured I'd buy a portion of each at the beginning of start up so I'd be ready for anything.

    So, from what I gather: Drain - Refill - Let mix - Retest.
    Fix (in this order): pH - FC
    Then: Shock but not with a shock product, but with bleach.

    Does this sound right?
    Yep. But if the CYA is still way up there, you might need a second round of draining. Just be sure you leave a foot in the pool lest the liner shift and wrinkle.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I probably won't have an update until Tuesday. (Mid shift the next 2 days at work) Hopefully I can get a good bit of the draining done tomorrow since the wife will be home and can do spot checks. Then time to refill. I will post updates as they are available.

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    You are now on the right track. No sense in SLAMing the pool until you get the cya in range.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Small Update: Pool is about 1/4 drained. Little bit longer to go. Vacuumed to waste until I had to break sump pump out. Got a little debris out. Continued to net and rake. I think a good portion of the gunk is out. I think the high CYA is/was the largest problem.

    Should I do anything before beginning to fill back up (once 50% full/empty of course)? Or just fill back up and begin testing again, once filled and then proceed?

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Quote Originally Posted by G_Chaffin View Post
    Small Update: Pool is about 1/4 drained. Little bit longer to go. Vacuumed to waste until I had to break sump pump out. Got a little debris out. Continued to net and rake. I think a good portion of the gunk is out. I think the high CYA is/was the largest problem.

    Should I do anything before beginning to fill back up (once 50% full/empty of course)? Or just fill back up and begin testing again, once filled and then proceed?
    Sadly, you need to fill it up and let it mix awhile to recheck the CYA level and see if you need another round of draining. I know, standing there watching the level crawl up the walls is frustrating... Maybe amuse yourself by attaching a second hose to a spray nozzle to blast the walls clean and chase any residual debris into a nice pile to make it easier to vacuum later. Just a thought.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Thank you. My wife keeps asking, "When is the pool going to be clear?!" I have used many of the phrases I've learned on this site..."A pool is like a pet...." is one that she understood.

    Probably start to refill in the next hour. Thanks again!

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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Pool1.jpg
    Pool2.jpg

    Hopefully that worked. This is what the pool looks like as of now. Go ahead and start to refill once 50 full/50 empty?
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    UPDATE: No point in new picture after refill, pool looks exactly the same.

    Taylor K-2006 Full test
    FC = 10 ppm
    CC = 0 ppm
    pH = <7.0 still (8 drops to reach 7.5)
    TA = 80 ppm
    CH = 100 ppm (I know really not needed, but still ran full test after refill)
    CYA = 100 (was probably closer to 130 before now maybe around 110. Cannot be accurate over 100 of course...but just judging by looking at the scale)

    I assume I'm going to hear the dreaded, "Drain and refill again" in the responses. Any other thing I can do??

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    You can use half tap water and half pool water to do a diluted CYA test and get a better idea of where you are on CYA.
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    I decided to go ahead and drain again. Probably do about 1/3 this time instead of 1/2.
    Bright side, while draining this time, I noticed a dark area in the middle (Leaves). I'm starting to see through the cloudiness! Very small patch of leaves, which also made my day, because I've gotten most of the debris out of the pool. Just to get this cloudiness in check! Maybe a small update tonight, if not, tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for the tips!

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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    You can use half tap water and half pool water to do a diluted CYA test and get a better idea of where you are on CYA.

    Small note: I still had my sample, diluted it 50/50 mixture. CYA came out to appx. 55. Is this good enough to start balancing the water yet?
    I've got probably 10 inches of water drained already. Maybe go ahead and start refilling?

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Do you have saltwater? If so, you can stop earlier. If not, I would to another third, hope for 70-80 and live with it. The downside of high CYA is that you have to maintain higher chlorine levels.

    Good news that the water is clearing and you are getting rid of the debris! You'll be glad you did this all summer long.

    Please update your signature with your pool info as shown here.
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Refill should be done in 2-3 hours. I will test when I get home tomorrow (3-4p EST). Hoping for some improvements in CYA and we'll go from there!

    Signature should show up now.
    1999 Install, 10,000 gallons, 21' AG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Pump, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Alright, good plan.
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    Re: New to the site and just opened pool (Cloudy Blue...HELP)

    Success!

    FC = 3.6 ppm
    CC = 0 ppm
    pH = <7.0 (7 drops to reach 7.5)
    TA = 80 ppm
    CH = 100 ppm
    CYA = 50 ppm (undiluted, straight from pool)

    I've put my readings into pool calculator. Should I go by these readings and start there? I know Richard320 said to balance pH, once it is balanced, then progress to bleach to reach the proper shock level and then continue to maintain that level until the pool is clear. Does this sound right?

    By this, I mean...put Washing Soda in to reach 7.5. Once I hit 7.5, put bleach in to reach shock level (16 ppm by pool calculator). Then maintain 16 FC until pool is clear. Once pool is clear, test and then balance the rest of the levels. Am I right?

    Thanks again for the patience and tips!
    1999 Install, 10,000 gallons, 21' AG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Pump, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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