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Thread: What to fix first?

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    What to fix first?

    I can't clean due to bad filter/pump and I can't change filter until pool clean. I do not know the history of this pool. We have added 12 bags of shock for algae bloom and nothing clean. We have a cleaner line and skimmer. Not enough suction on skimmer to vacuum. Hose is directly attached in hole now and using as a bottom drain to circulate. The cleaner line is plugged with winter cap. Lever on piping is broken off and sealed. Filter is not doing its job but pressure is not going up (9). Not fitted with unions. Need to cut pipe, replace sand, add unions and add lever. $90/hour quote--no can do---

    Advise?

    pool4.JPGpool3.JPG
    wowens
    18x36 in ground early 1990's, Hayward S244T sand filter, liner 2012, Hayward Max-Flo 3/4 HP pump.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: What to fix first?

    I'm not smart enough to comment on the mechanics, but someone else here will pipe in any minute

    First, stop putting "Shock" in unless you know it contains NO stabilized CYA. The best thing to clean up green is simply bleach or pool bleach in a higher concentration but with no additives. The additives (Calcium or CYA) are cumulative and as their numbers rise in the pool they can cause major headaches such as algae blooms or cloudy water. And they're pretty expensive I hear?

    Don't plan on replacing sand-waste of money. Its been good for a million years already unless there is really, REALLY something funky oily icky in there that you can't clean out.

    Start reading Pool School, get the TF-100 test kit ordered to do your own reliable testing and start asking more questions here.
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    Re: What to fix first?

    If you read in her other posting on this same problem, she posted pool results that showed 0 CYA. I am going to guess that the shock she dumped in probably burned off almost as fast as she dumped it in.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: What to fix first?

    I hear what everyone is saying....bleach bleach...I don't mind trying that but there are pump issues that have to be fixed. As nasty as it is, the pressure is not going up. As I understand, then the filter is not catching anything. Previous person wasn't even an owner, just trying to sell and he was dumping all walmart anything in it so I'm told. Therefore, sand could be like concrete, clumped and doing nothing. Not to mention, I CAN NOT VACUUM. I have test kit on way.

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    Re: What to fix first?

    OK, I just browsed thru your other post and did not see where you have been backwashing the filter and rinsing it. If the sand was like concrete then the pressure gage would be pegged as high as it could go due to no water flow thru it. Is there a working pressure gage? If so, what is the reading on it? (also the reading when the pump is off) On top of the multiport valve on top of the filter tank there should be five or six positions One should read backwash and another will say rinse (possibly). Turn the pump off, set the selector to backwash, connect a hose to the open port on the multiport valve (clamp it), turn the pump back on and observe the water coming out of the end of the hose. If it is dirty, and most likely will be, then run it until it is coming out clean. Turn the pump off, set the selector to rinse and turn the pump back on. This will settle the sand in the filter and remove any leftover debris from it. Turn the pump off and set the selector back to filter and turn the pump back on. Observe the pressure reading. It should be significantly lower. If you feel you need to change the filter sand, don't waste the time/money doing that. Most times a good deep cleaning will suffice. This is done by removing the top from the filter tank and running a garden hose down into the sand. Do not push too hard if you feel some resistance. Let the water make its own path thru the sand. Do this step as many times as needed to get all of the junk out of the sand. I had to do one last year that took the better part of half an hour to do.

    Honestly, I don't think vacuuming is the priority right now. From your other post, you need to get the chlorine and stabilizer levels up. This will clean up the water and then you can vacuum the bottom.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: What to fix first?

    I have back washed several times. Water is not dirty. Pressure gauge was broken, new one reads 10psi all the time unless turned off it goes to zero. It's been on 3 days and no pressure change.

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    Re: What to fix first?

    do we know for certain there is even sand in the filter?????
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: What to fix first?

    I see some in the backwash glass, but no.

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    Re: What to fix first?

    Quote Originally Posted by danpik View Post
    do we know for certain there is even sand in the filter?????
    No sand in filter? Hard to imagine. Also hard to imagine why pressure hasn't increased when filtering swamp water for days! Just found this post, which sheds a little light, perhaps. Talks about possible "channeling" of the sand. Might be worth investigating. 10 psi seems really low pressure, even for a clean filter.
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    Re: What to fix first?

    Quote Originally Posted by iam4iam View Post
    No sand in filter? Hard to imagine. Also hard to imagine why pressure hasn't increased when filtering swamp water for days! Just found this post, which sheds a little light, perhaps. Talks about possible "channeling" of the sand. Might be worth investigating. 10 psi seems really low pressure, even for a clean filter.

    I was just thinking the same thing. Either way the top should come off. No sand would not surprise me either
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: What to fix first?

    So I have been doing a lot of YouTubing. I'm getting confident, but am I getting too confident? I'm thinking I can do this. With pump off and draining, cut pipes in prep for unions. Unscrew seal and lift off top. Garden hose clean or replace with new sand/manmade sand. If I replace I'm wondering how to get out. I guess shop vac. That way can inspect laterals too although not sure what to look for. Put back together replacing ring seal if needed (currently doesn't meet flush at screw joint) and add unions to PVC. I think I can. Do you? Pool store wants $800+.

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    Re: What to fix first?

    Not sure of your skill levels , but most of this stuff is fairly easy and there are plenty of how to vids on youtube as you have found. Probably the hardest part of this job will be installing the unions. However, this too is fairly easy. One thing to remember about unions is that a short section of pipe will have to be removed in the area where the union will go. You will see what I mean when you pick them up.

    Deep cleaning the filter is easy. Here is a link to how to do this. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-a-Sand-Filter All you need for tools is a garden hose and a cold beer.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: What to fix first?

    you can do it.
    There is noting hard about doing pvc work. Just get your unions, a little bit of pipe, some pvc primer and pvc glue.

    when you get the parts, the cut the old pvc out. The dry fit all of the new parts together so it all fits. When you have it all together, mark each part with a pencil or marker.

    Take it apart, then put each piece back together with glue.

    easy as pie.

    Quote Originally Posted by wowens View Post
    So I have been doing a lot of YouTubing. I'm getting confident, but am I getting too confident? I'm thinking I can do this. With pump off and draining, cut pipes in prep for unions. Unscrew seal and lift off top. Garden hose clean or replace with new sand/manmade sand. If I replace I'm wondering how to get out. I guess shop vac. That way can inspect laterals too although not sure what to look for. Put back together replacing ring seal if needed (currently doesn't meet flush at screw joint) and add unions to PVC. I think I can. Do you? Pool store wants $800+.
    Divin Dave,
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    Re: What to fix first?

    So if I'm not getting any filter action it is essentially recirculating. Should my pressure change if I do put it on recirculate? It didn't. Stayed at 9. Also, has there ever been any instance of the settings not being what it's set on? In other words having it on filter but it actually be recirculating. Of course if you have it on filter and it backwashes, that would definitely be an indicator. Mine isn't doing that though.

    Got test kit. It tested same as store. Added stabilizer and baking soda. Will see what we have tomorrow.
    wowens
    18x36 in ground early 1990's, Hayward S244T sand filter, liner 2012, Hayward Max-Flo 3/4 HP pump.

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    Re: What to fix first?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowens View Post
    So if I'm not getting any filter action it is essentially recirculating. Should my pressure change if I do put it on recirculate? It didn't. Stayed at 9.
    Help me out, experts, but on recirculate, the water is bypassing the filter, right? So the filter pressure should be zero. Could she need new spider gasket? That's a lot easier to check than the sand issues!

    Also, a week ago, I measured her pH at 7.2. Now it's at 6.8. This drop is likely due to unstable pH because of the low TA (40) and, according to Richard (Chem Geek) in this post, the drop in FC after the shock of 6 bags of Cal-hypo 73 was added by the friendly pool guy. Incidentally, below are before/after friendly pool guy added the bags of Cal-hypo 73. It seems that they certainly helped. Pool went from GREEN to thick milk. I would not expect such a dramatic change from a single dose of chlorine, even though it was a very large dose for a 0 CYA pool (+23 FC if they were 1-lb bags and I'm remembering correctly that it was 6 bags). It would have made more sense in this case to have used one of the stabalized forms of chlorine rather than Cal-hypo.
    green monster (5-7).jpgmilky monster (5-16).jpg
    ~18,000 gal (16x32)
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    Re: What to fix first?

    The pH would rise after adding a hypochorite source of chlorine such as Cal-Hypo and it would fall back down as the FC got used up. So if the pH of 7.2 was measured when there was still higher FC after adding Cal-Hypo, then the 6.8 is possible after the FC has dropped. Usually you don't see such a low pH because of carbon dioxide outgassing, but the low TA doesn't outgas as much and there's less pH buffering so the pH can drop.

    If I assume the pool is 22,000 gallons (from 18'x36'x4.5') then 6 pounds of 73% Cal-Hypo added to a pool with no FC or CYA and starting with a pH of 6.7 and with a TA of 40 ppm would go to 7.3. As the FC drops, the pH would drop back down.

    As for the change in color, a single large dose can turn a pool away from green quickly depending on how much material there is in the pool and with no CYA in the water the reactions will go faster, though the chlorine will also get broken down from the sun faster as well. See this post (see here if that post link doesn't work) where a lot of algae coagulates and drops to the bottom after 10 minutes after a shock. Of course, one has to keep adding chlorine to maintain the high FC level or else any algae not killed can continue to grow.
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    Re: What to fix first?

    Yes you should see a pressure change (reduction) if you bypass the filter on recirculate. If you are not seeing one, the first thing I would check is the pressure gauge, pool gauges are notoriously cheaply built and subject to harsh conditions, so you need to make sure yours is working and not sticking at some point. If the gauge works then I would consider lack of resistance in the filter (no sand, etc.)
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    Re: What to fix first?

    The difference in the above pictures is actually 12 bags of 1lb shock and two 1liter bottles of black algae killer (w/second 6 bags) 1bottle algicide (w/first 6 bags)

    A new cheap gauge was screwed on. It goes to 9-10 on filter, zero on off and back to 9 on recirculate.

    Added 1gal bleach, 4lbs stabilizer and 16lbs baking soda last night. Will test later today. Hoping to shop for unions.
    wowens
    18x36 in ground early 1990's, Hayward S244T sand filter, liner 2012, Hayward Max-Flo 3/4 HP pump.

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    Re: What to fix first?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowens View Post
    The difference in the above pictures is actually 12 bags of 1lb shock and two 1liter bottles of black algae killer (w/second 6 bags) 1bottle algicide (w/first 6 bags)
    Wow! That amount of Cal-hypo 73 raised your FC to over 40! With CYA=0, that probably wasn't great for your liner! (extreme sarcasm)

    Quote Originally Posted by wowens View Post
    Added 1gal bleach, 4lbs stabilizer and 16lbs baking soda last night. Will test later today. Hoping to shop for unions.
    The one gallon of bleach was probably mostly wasted.

    But the stabilizer should raise your CYA to around 20, which will prevent all the chlorine from being burned off before it has a chance to go to work on the algae, and the baking soda will raise TA to make pH more stable.

    After remeasuring TA and pH, add borax accordingly to raise pH to low 7's before you start the SLAM...

    Quote Originally Posted by wowens View Post
    A new cheap gauge was screwed on. It goes to 9-10 on filter, zero on off and back to 9 on recirculate...
    Hoping to shop for unions.
    Oh yeah, you still have to solve filter issues first. ... Or does she? Doesn't the filter have to be doing something for the color change seen above, or does the insane dose of Cal-hypo, "black algae killer," and algecide just mean a ton of dead algae is lying on the bottom of her pool. (Water is currently being supplied to filter from bottom of pool with vacuum hose going to skimmer.) Either way, filter pressure should be 0 when set to recirculate, right?
    ~18,000 gal (16x32)
    Hayward sand filter
    Circupool RJ45 SWG
    Hayward Max-Flo XL SP2305X7 pump (0.75 HP)

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    Re: What to fix first?

    After 4lbs stabilizer and 16lb baking soda:
    TA 100 (made water clear, not red, not green)
    pH 7.3
    Chlorine almost 1
    CYA less than 20

    Now what? remember pump not working properly. Hoping for big boost of self confidence tomorrow to saw some pipes. If all goes wrong, I could be without circulation all together.

    I just added one gallon of bleach. Not really understanding SLAM yet with not being able to vacuum and FC and CC and all the testing and math.
    wowens
    18x36 in ground early 1990's, Hayward S244T sand filter, liner 2012, Hayward Max-Flo 3/4 HP pump.

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