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Thread: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

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    My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    I have a SWG. Got my TF-100 test kit today with magnetic stirrer. Here are my numbers (please note that tests were done with magnetic stirrer, if applicable to mixing):

    Salt Test (sodium chloride): 3600 ppm

    FC: 7.5 ppm
    CC: .5 ppm
    TC: 8 ppm

    Quick Test of pH: 7.5
    Quick Test of Cl: 5 (or above. that side of the container was yellow).

    TA: 80 (colored first changed to more pink than red).

    CH: around 175 ppm. (this is where I had issues. It says to turn "red", but mine was more purple after I added the R-0011L.)

    CYA: around 20, maybe less (black dot became faint as I got closer to 20, from 30. when the tube was completely filled, the black dot was not visible anymore).

    Borate: in between 0-15 ppm (probably a little closer to 15 ppm).

    My Aqua Rite reads 3000 with it set at 70%. Pool temp is around 77 degrees. I have not backwashed since I opened pool last Thursday.

    I guess my problems would be:
    1. the lack of CYA
    2. that my FC is too high
    3. Maybe my borate level too low

    Which one of these issues would I need to tackle first? I have estimated my pool to be 30,000 gallons.

    Thanks for all of your help.

    I have attached pics of my pool. The water is fairly clear.
    2015-05-13 16.29.06.jpg
    Pool Owner since Sept. 2014, but 2012(ish) in-ground pool. 40'x'20x3'(shallow)-8'(deep). Around 28,000 gallons. Vinyl liner. SWG. Aqua Rite with Hayward T-15 cell. Hayward Super Pump (self priming). Hayward Sand Filter. AquaPro Pro1100e Heat Pump. 2 main drains. 2 skimmers. 2 jets. 1 light. 1 diving board. Dolphin M4. TF-100 Test Kit.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    All the test are done by counting drops until the last one causes no further color change and then that drop does not count. The absolute colors do not matter very much.

    Sounds like your CYA is a little less than 20ppm. I would add about 40ppm more, and a week after it dissolves, retest the CYA and adjust again to the 70-80ppm recommended for the SWG.

    Your FC is a little high, but still likely below shock level and thus safe to swim. Seems like you need to turn your SWG down some ... and likely down more when you add the CYA.

    Have you added borates? If not, it is 0. And these are completely optional.
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    All the test are done by counting drops until the last one causes no further color change and then that drop does not count. The absolute colors do not matter very much.

    Sounds like your CYA is a little less than 20ppm. I would add about 40ppm more, and a week after it dissolves, retest the CYA and adjust again to the 70-80ppm recommended for the SWG.

    Your FC is a little high, but still likely below shock level and thus safe to swim. Seems like you need to turn your SWG down some ... and likely down more when you add the CYA.

    Have you added borates? If not, it is 0. And these are completely optional.

    Thanks for your reply. A few questions from your comments:

    1. When I add CYA, do I need to turn off my pump or any equipment? Currently, I have my pump running 24/7 (pool guy recommended this since I have no timer).

    2. I will turn down my SWG to 50%. Maybe that will help. So I guess the FC means the amount of

    3. I have not added any Borates, myself so my test maybe a 0. The pool store test is 13 for Borates. Can I add Borates and CYA, at the same time or do I need to do one thing first?
    Pool Owner since Sept. 2014, but 2012(ish) in-ground pool. 40'x'20x3'(shallow)-8'(deep). Around 28,000 gallons. Vinyl liner. SWG. Aqua Rite with Hayward T-15 cell. Hayward Super Pump (self priming). Hayward Sand Filter. AquaPro Pro1100e Heat Pump. 2 main drains. 2 skimmers. 2 jets. 1 light. 1 diving board. Dolphin M4. TF-100 Test Kit.

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Hi wk,
    there is no reason to add any borates yet. Actually, we dont recommend folks fool with them until they have learned how to keep their pools in ramge just for the basic recommended levels for a couple months.

    After that, then if you want to add borates, then thats fine.

    For now,
    Adjust your CYA first, and and set up your swg as jblizzle said is really all you need to do.
    Over time, your pH will rise and you will need to add muriatic acid to get it back down. When you add Muratic, that will also drop the TA a bit. After a few pH adjustments, your TA should be just fine.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Don't do borates yet. They're optional, and can be added later. Get comfortable with everything else first.

    Pump doesn't have to be on 24/7.

    We recommend adding CYA in an old sock/stocking and hanging it in front of a return jet. Pump on and/or squeezing the sock will help it dissolve fast.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    Hi wk,
    there is no reason to add any borates yet. Actually, we dont recommend folks fool with them until they have learned how to keep their pools in ramge just for the basic recommended levels for a couple months.

    After that, then if you want to add borates, then thats fine.

    For now,
    Adjust your CYA first, and and set up your swg as jblizzle said is really all you need to do.
    Over time, your pH will rise and you will need to add muriatic acid to get it back down. When you add Muratic, that will also drop the TA a bit. After a few pH adjustments, your TA should be just fine.
    I can attest to the 'waiting awhile before adding borates' advice. My pH is still shooting up allot and I feel my total alkalinity was not where it should have been when I added the boric acid, making changes now is more difficult.

    So yeah, hold off on the borates for a good while.

    Regards.
    10k-13k gallon, IG, plaster, with spa, as of 2015 the pool is 8 years old...I think...TF-100 Test Kit, pool pictures on Flickr, Test History
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Thanks for all the great advice! So I'm going through with adding CYA. My wife bought BioGuard Stabilizer 100 (next time I will use WalMart stuff). According to Pool Math, I have around 30,000 gallon pool. My CYA , from pool store test is 29 and from my TF test kit is less than 20. I entered 20 into the equation with a goal of 40. This produced a result of me needing 5 lbs of Stabilizer 100. According to the label, it says I can spread on surface, but TFP says to use a sock and put in skimmer. I'm not sure I have socks big enough for 5 lbs (I'm only a size 9 feet---LOL).

    I'm fairly anal and want to follow TFP procedures. What should I do to add this Stabilizer into the pool?
    Pool Owner since Sept. 2014, but 2012(ish) in-ground pool. 40'x'20x3'(shallow)-8'(deep). Around 28,000 gallons. Vinyl liner. SWG. Aqua Rite with Hayward T-15 cell. Hayward Super Pump (self priming). Hayward Sand Filter. AquaPro Pro1100e Heat Pump. 2 main drains. 2 skimmers. 2 jets. 1 light. 1 diving board. Dolphin M4. TF-100 Test Kit.

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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Quote Originally Posted by wkusae31 View Post
    Thanks for all the great advice! So I'm going through with adding CYA. My wife bought BioGuard Stabilizer 100 (next time I will use WalMart stuff). According to Pool Math, I have around 30,000 gallon pool. My CYA , from pool store test is 29 and from my TF test kit is less than 20. I entered 20 into the equation with a goal of 40. This produced a result of me needing 5 lbs of Stabilizer 100. According to the label, it says I can spread on surface, but TFP says to use a sock and put in skimmer. I'm not sure I have socks big enough for 5 lbs (I'm only a size 9 feet---LOL).

    I'm fairly anal and want to follow TFP procedures. What should I do to add this Stabilizer into the pool?
    Use two socks then. Drop 'em in the skimmer as long as they don't restrict the flow. Or devise some method to suspend them in front of a return. Like this


    Other methods include suspending the sock off a pool noodle or an empty bleach jug or something else that floats and let it bob around.

    You DON'T want to broadcast it over the surface. It doesn't dissolve fast enough and it is acidic. You'll end up with white freckles all over the floor of the pool.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Sandra B's Avatar
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    It's really surprising how much CYA granules will fit in a sock, because it stretches! Use two socks, each hung over one return jet, if you need to. Tie off the top with a piece of clothesline type rope, leaving enough rope to hang it to something, or tie it to a brick or chair or something at the edge of the pool. Hanging over the return jet isn't mandatory, it just dissolves quicker. Some people hang them from pool noodles or a pool float and just let it float around.

    Edited: Richard said the same thing, with photos!
    18,000 gallon freeform inground plaster
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Perfect! Will drop 1 sock in skimmer and suspend 1 with pool noodle. Is it safe to swim with this in the pool or should I avoid swimming in it? If I need to avoid swimming, when is it safe to get back in?
    Pool Owner since Sept. 2014, but 2012(ish) in-ground pool. 40'x'20x3'(shallow)-8'(deep). Around 28,000 gallons. Vinyl liner. SWG. Aqua Rite with Hayward T-15 cell. Hayward Super Pump (self priming). Hayward Sand Filter. AquaPro Pro1100e Heat Pump. 2 main drains. 2 skimmers. 2 jets. 1 light. 1 diving board. Dolphin M4. TF-100 Test Kit.

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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Quote Originally Posted by wkusae31 View Post
    Perfect! Will drop 1 sock in skimmer and suspend 1 with pool noodle. Is it safe to swim with this in the pool or should I avoid swimming in it? If I need to avoid swimming, when is it safe to get back in?
    Your pH and FC are fine. You can see the bottom. If it's warm enough for you, jump in.

    Personally, I'd set the CYA sock aside when people are in the pool, so nobody starts using it as a football or something and spills the contents. Just set it in a plastic bucket while you're swimming. The one in the skimmer should be okay.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Your pH and FC are fine. You can see the bottom. If it's warm enough for you, jump in.

    Personally, I'd set the CYA sock aside when people are in the pool, so nobody starts using it as a football or something and spills the contents. Just set it in a plastic bucket while you're swimming. The one in the skimmer should be okay.
    Thanks for the advice.
    Pool Owner since Sept. 2014, but 2012(ish) in-ground pool. 40'x'20x3'(shallow)-8'(deep). Around 28,000 gallons. Vinyl liner. SWG. Aqua Rite with Hayward T-15 cell. Hayward Super Pump (self priming). Hayward Sand Filter. AquaPro Pro1100e Heat Pump. 2 main drains. 2 skimmers. 2 jets. 1 light. 1 diving board. Dolphin M4. TF-100 Test Kit.

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    personally, I have an old pillow case I put my cya in and hang it from the pool pole. I do it this way because all my socks have holes in them
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    LOL! Holey Sock Dave! Old socks for you and new socks for your pool!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here are the Recommended Pool Chemicals complete with discussions on how to add.
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Just remember that if you add CYA to your skimmer that you shouldn't back wash your filter for at least a week. The CYA can take up to a week to full dissolve and if you back wash the filter before its all dissolved you could be pumping the CYA out the filter.

    I found that with 4# of CYA in a sock hanging infront the return jet it took less than a day for it to be fully dissolved with a few squeezes.

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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Thanks for all of the help. I've read all of the articles and performed the Tests via Test Kit. I've put the socks in the water tonight. I will wait a complete 7 days until after the sock dissolves before I do any backwashing. By the way, how often should you backwash? I have SWG with sand filter.

    Also, when should I test CYA levels again? Based on other threads, I'm assuming test in about 6 days after the sock dissolves since it may take a week to register? At that point, should I test my CYA level, backwash, and then add more CYA to increase from 40-60?
    Pool Owner since Sept. 2014, but 2012(ish) in-ground pool. 40'x'20x3'(shallow)-8'(deep). Around 28,000 gallons. Vinyl liner. SWG. Aqua Rite with Hayward T-15 cell. Hayward Super Pump (self priming). Hayward Sand Filter. AquaPro Pro1100e Heat Pump. 2 main drains. 2 skimmers. 2 jets. 1 light. 1 diving board. Dolphin M4. TF-100 Test Kit.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    You should backwash when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: My TF-100 Numbers (with Pics)...Please advise...

    Quote Originally Posted by wkusae31 View Post
    Thanks for all of the help. I've read all of the articles and performed the Tests via Test Kit. I've put the socks in the water tonight. I will wait a complete 7 days until after the sock dissolves before I do any backwashing. By the way, how often should you backwash? I have SWG with sand filter.

    Also, when should I test CYA levels again? Based on other threads, I'm assuming test in about 6 days after the sock dissolves since it may take a week to register? At that point, should I test my CYA level, backwash, and then add more CYA to increase from 40-60?
    Good plan. Adding cya in a sock eliminates the filter backwashing problem because once it is out of the sock it is in solution. The problem before when adding in the skimmer is it would go get caught in the filter and dissolve there.
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