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Thread: OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

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    OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

    Hi Forum-

    I've completed Phase I of my DIY pump + control panel upgrade. I've gone from an older Hayward NorthStar pump with Jandy Aqualink RS6 panel and Hayward Aquarite Salt Controller to a Hayward EcoStar + OmniLogic panel setup. The initial upgrade went very smoothly, and I have the panel talking to the pump (incl speed control) and the T-15 Salt Cell, and a basic schedule running.

    Phase I - replace panel(s) & pump [done]
    Phase II - connect to the network and install the inside touch panel
    Phase III - install temp sensors, get the heater, polaris pump, and lights configured
    Phase IV - add valve actuators.

    A few questions on some of the later phases:

    - I have a RayPak P406A heater. The omnilogic manual shows instructions for connecting to a RayPak RP2100 heater, I assume this is the same? The old Jandy panel had the 220V for the heater on a switched relay (same one as the old one-speed pump). I assume I should connect the 220V directly to unswitched power, and let the omnilogic control the heater via the low voltage connection?

    - My old panels (both Jandy and AquaRite for saltgen) were *not* connected to the pool bond wire. The OmniLogic manual suggests connecting the panel to the bond wire. Any reason not to do this?

    - When I want to enable more features (like the heater or lights, etc), do I need to go through the whole "config wizard" again? Or is there a way to add a specific item (or change something) more directly without re-specifying everything I've already set up?

    - On my old Jandy+AquaRite setup, the chlorinator was powered (and on) whenever the pump was powered (and on). With the new OmniLogic setup, it looks like I need to set up separate (and coordinated) schedules for running the pump, and enabling the salt cell. Is there any way to automatically tie these together so that whenever I turn on the pump the salt cell is enabled also? Would the "interlock" feature work for this? Or is there a reason why I wouldn't want to tie them together (maybe just for more control over the chlorination schedule)?

    Thanks in advance...
    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

    1. I believe that is how the heaters are to be controlled. Power to the heater, heater temp set to max, and control wires from the Omni.

    2. They are all supposed to be bonded. Your previous setup was wrong.

    3. No idea. In the ProLogic, I just scroll through the menu to the item I want to change and then change it. I have no wizard

    4. That seems odd. Again, in my PL, the SWG is on when the pump is on, no separate schedule. It is not unreasonable that the SWG could have a separate shorter schedule and then any changes in the pump run time would not affect the SWG output. There is likely a way to tie them together though ... interlock may very well be the way.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

    I am going omnilogic with ecostar and a T-cell-15 as well - what parts did you need to make everything work between the t-cell-15 and the omnilogic? did you need a plumbing kit, sacrificial anode, etc?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

    You just plug the cell into the controller. But you do need to buy the union kit that includes the flow switch.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by jwramr View Post
    I am going omnilogic with ecostar and a T-cell-15 as well - what parts did you need to make everything work between the t-cell-15 and the omnilogic? did you need a plumbing kit, sacrificial anode, etc?
    My T-15 cell was already installed (I had a pool company install it with an AquaRite controller when we moved in) - including the flow switch. I do not have a sacrificial anode, but that was pointed out to me afterwards by someone else as something that I should have. I don't think they're strictly necessary, but it can help minimize corrosion on other elements. It's on my to-do list to look into.

    To follow up and answer some of my original (unanswered) questions in case anyone else is interested:

    - The "config wizard" can be run again, either in full mode (where it conveniently remembers all your initial settings), or in selective mode where you can just reconfigure the parts you care about. So it's easy to change / tweak later.

    - I've installed the temp sensors, got the network configured, wired the remote panel, and hooked up the relay for the lights. Everything went smoothly. The only thing I'm still trying to figure out is the best way to configure the panel. The default screens seem to be a little non-intuitive - there are several ways to drill down and get to a particular item, but it usually takes a few levels of menus to get there. There's something called "Simple Mode" which is only briefly described in the manual, but might be what I'm looking for - haven't tried it yet.

    - I have yet to install the valve actuators, and I just fired off a question to Hayward to understand how best to configure them. It seems like valves are tied to "features" on the panel, and in my case I have a bunch of 3-way valves, meaning that some control multiple things in the pool, and in general I need to turn multiple valves to get a particular configuration that I want. It's not immediately obvious to me whether my plan for how to configure them is the "right" way to do it. Hopefully they can set me straight.....
    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by chinatti View Post
    in my case I have a bunch of 3-way valves, meaning that some control multiple things in the pool, and in general I need to turn multiple valves to get a particular configuration that I want. It's not immediately obvious to me whether my plan for how to configure them is the "right" way to do it.
    That is likely to cause problems. None of the automation systems are very good at handling inter dependencies between valves, aside from a couple of special cases that are hard-coded in (like don't run the pool cleaner when in spa mode).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

    The OmniLogic panel has a concept of "themes" which will capture a snapshot of the configuration and recall it on a button press. I'm hoping this will solve my problems - basically configure each valve as a separate "feature" (since it seems like features are associated with valves in OmniLogic config language), and then create a few themes (for instance - waterfall theme that sets all the valves appropriately & cranks the VSP up to full speed, etc.). We'll see what Hayward says.....
    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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    Re: OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

    In case anyone is interested, I was able to get all the valves hooked up and configured over the weekend. The OmniLogic panel allows you to have multiple valves associated with a "feature", so I was able to get everything configured valve-wise the way I wanted it with no issues.

    I still have a few things I don't fully understand - maybe someone else with one of these panels can give some insight:

    1) The Chlorinator function (i.e. TurboCell) seems to stay on all the time. I'm not sure if this is what I want or not. In general, it should only be active when the filter pump is on, but it's not clear if there is a built-in (implied) interlock for this or not. The interlock screen itself does not allow me to have the chlorinator as one of the "equipment" selections. I've set up a schedule for the chlorinator that matches the pump schedule, but the chlorinator doesn't seem to shut itself off when the pump does. If anyone else has this setup, how is your chlorinator configured? Is it on a schedule? Does it stay "on" all the time (meaning that the display panel shows it as ON)? I think ideally I'd like to program it to be on whenever the pump is on, and I believe the interlock function can do this - except that I cannot select the chlorinator on that screen.

    2) For the "themes", I don't have a good understanding of how they interact with schedules, manual feature on/off, or pump speed. Specifically, I've set up a "theme" for my waterfalls - I would like this to switch the valves and increase the pump speed on the main filter pump. I have a feature called "Falls-Valve" that is configured with the 2 valves I need to move to steer water to the falls, and nothing else (i.e. there is no "pump" on the feature because there is not a dedicated pump). In order to set up the theme, I first manually turn those things on (i.e. turn the "Falls-Valve" feature to ON, and increase the filter pump speed to max), and then added the theme. Now, my questions are:

    a) Does the theme affect other items that were not turned on manually when creating the theme, like for instance the heater? Specifically, if I had turned on the heater first, then turn on the "waterfall theme", does that leave the heater on? Or do I need to create another theme like "Waterfalls-Heated"? Similarly, what if I adjust the chlorinator percentage setting - do I now need to go update all my themes with this new percentage setting? I guess I'm trying to understand whether the theme stores a snapshot of the entire system configuration, or whether it just stores the delta compared to something (maybe the current schedule settings?). For instance, does it store everything(PUMP=max, FALLS-VALVE=ON, HTR=OFF, JETS=OFF, LIGHTS=OFF) or changes(PUMP=max, FALLS-VALVE=ON, everything else unchanged).

    b) What if I had manually changed the pump speed (let's say the schedule had defaulted the speed to 1000rpm, but I manually changed it to 2000rpm) - and then turned on the waterfall theme. When I turn it off, does it go back to the manual setting, or back to the schedule setting?
    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

    1) In the ProLogic, the SWG is only allowed to be activated when the pump is running and there is sufficient flow. Although the OmniLogic is certainly more complex, so I can see the added ability to limit the SWG powered time to something less than the pump run time. So that any change in the pump run time would not impact the daily SWG output.

    Way beyond my (and likely most members) experience level with the rest of your questions.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: OmniLogic + EcoStar upgrade

    Just spoke to Hayward Tech Support, and got my questions answered. Here is what they told me:

    1) For the Chlorination function, he was surprised that you can set up a schedule, as he said I should just turn the chlorination function on manually, and then set the percentage. This will run the chlorinator when the pump is on (and flow is detected) for whatever percentage you set. This is basically how my older setup worked, and I think it's actually simpler than having a chlorinator schedule to manage / synchronize with a pump schedule. I'm going to delete my schedule and just leave it set ON. Also, FYI, you can tell if the cell is actively chlorinating by looking at the chlorinator diagnostic page - a cell voltage of ~31V indicates it is not chlorinating, and ~23-24V indicates it is chlorinating (I believe you also see a non-zero current reading when it's actively chlorinating).

    2) For the "themes", the panel will capture whatever equipment / features are ON at the time of creating the theme, and nothing else. So, in my example, if I create a theme with:
    a) waterfall valves ON
    b) filter pump at HIGH speed
    ... then when I turn that theme on, other equipment will not be affected. For example, if I had turned the heater on prior to selecting the theme, then the heater will remain on when I turn the theme on, and also when I turn it off. Also, if I had manually set the pump to some other speed before selecting the theme, then once I turn the theme off it will go back to it's regularly scheduled speed (i.e. it won't remember the other manual pump speed setting before the theme was activated).

    3) I'm behind on firmware, and he also noted that I should make sure that I update the wired remote panel firmware before updating the main panel firmware.

    I think that's it - basically everything seems to be working, and the only confusing thing is that the panel allows you to set a schedule for the chlorinator even though it ignores it...

    Hopefully this will help anyone else that installs this panel.
    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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