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Thread: Ph through the roof

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    Ph through the roof

    Hi everyone- I'm new to the forum this is my first post.
    Inground gunite pool installed and opened 1 month ago. 33,500 gallons.
    I was warned that as the gunite "cured" for the first several months I'd have to add acid, but this is ridiculous.
    I've added 44 pounds of dry acid over the past 2 weeks and the Ph is still reading >9 on my home test, verified at pool store.
    It hasn't budged. I have to run my SWG at 85% 24 hours a day just to maintain the chlorine levels due to such a high Ph.
    CYA is at 40, calcium hardness at 200, salinity 3300, TA 100
    I have several questions:
    1) Is it unusual to have to add this much acid for a new gunite pool or is this par for the course?
    2) I have read other posts suggesting muriatic acid- is this a better option than dry acid?
    3) If so, where can I buy this stuff, can't find it online or at pool stores.
    Thank you for your help!
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    You should switch to muriatic acid which should be in any pool store or hardware store.

    The pH has nothing to do with your SWG having to run so much. That at least partially due to your CYA being too low.

    What test kit are you using?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    That's your plaster curing. It will take huge amounts of acid early on, but it will slow down over the course of the next few months.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    If you are having to run the SWG 24/7 at that level then it is grossly undersized for your pool
    -Brian-
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    If you are having to run the SWG 24/7 at that level then it is grossly undersized for your pool
    That is true. I do not think the Nature 2 is anywhere near big enough for a 34k gallon pool.
    We would recommend a SWG that is rated for 1.5-3 times the size of your pool ... like up around 60k.
    And please take the minerals out of that thing to avoid ruining your new plaster.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    Lowes has muriatic acid on the pool aisle in the garden section. Pool stores should have it too. Be sure to get 31.45% and not 15%
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    If you are having to run the SWG 24/7 at that level then it is grossly undersized for your pool
    The Fusion soft 1400 owners manual states that this is good for pools up to 40,000 gallons....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    .
    And please take the minerals out of that thing to avoid ruining your new plaster.
    Please explain/elaborate. References? Thank you!
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Re: Ph through the roof

    It's good for pools up to 40k gallons based on running it 24/7. You don't need to run your pump 24/7, so getting a larger SWG allows you to cut pump run time while still making enough chlorine.
    One of the minerals is copper, which will build up in the water and can cause hair to turn green and the pool surface to stain.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Ph through the roof

    Thank you so much!
    Thankfully I haven't bought the 6 month mineral cartridge just the one month starter. I assume I can just take it out and it will run like a regular SWG? SO the pitch that the minerals help you to run the system at a lower chlorine level is just a pitch and (1) not worth the extra cost and (2) can potentially cause problems?
    Again thank you all for your help.
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Re: Ph through the roof

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Lowes has muriatic acid on the pool aisle in the garden section. Pool stores should have it too. Be sure to get 31.45% and not 15%
    Thank you!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks for confirming- I thought I was going crazy with the amount of ph minus I was putting in.
    I was starting to sound like a drug addict: every night I'm going home and dropping acid.
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Re: Ph through the roof



    Yep...some pools just need some pH influence.
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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    Based on some previous posts it looks like the swg in the nature2 fusion soft produces about 1.25lbs of chlorine a day. That would mean you will probably have to run it at a fairly high output 24/7 to keep up with the chlorine demand of your pool. You might want to see if the builder will let you trade it in for a larger salt system since it's only a month old.
    Here's a thread from a couple years ago where their nature2 cartridge broke apart and stained their plaster.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ac-Fusion-Soft


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Re: Ph through the roof

    Just want to point out about switching from dry acid to muriatic (hydrochloric) acid. Dry acid is sodium bisulfate. While it works, and is somewhat easier to handle than the liquid acids, the level of sulfates build up over time. Sulfates are known to damage concrete at higher levels, and can also damage the plates in salt cells.
    J.R.

    20K IG gunnite pool
    2HP Hayward single speed pump
    Cartridge filter

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    Re: Ph through the roof

    Quote Originally Posted by jrs_diesel View Post
    Just want to point out about switching from dry acid to muriatic (hydrochloric) acid. Dry acid is sodium bisulfate. While it works, and is somewhat easier to handle than the liquid acids, the level of sulfates build up over time. Sulfates are known to damage concrete at higher levels, and can also damage the plates in salt cells.
    Is there a way to decrease sulfates? Are they checked with typical water tests?
    It's a new pool- am I too late, or if I switch over now should I be okay?
    Thanks.
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    jrs_diesel's Avatar
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    I don't believe there is a cheap test available to test for sulfates. Probably could send a sample to a lab, but I don't know what level is considered too high.

    Easiest way to deal with it is to stop using the dry acid. Splash out and rain will bring the levels down over time.
    J.R.

    20K IG gunnite pool
    2HP Hayward single speed pump
    Cartridge filter

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    No, they are not everyday tests at all. Not for pools. It's not a test you'd need to purchase. You can switch to MA any time you like, no problem.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim H View Post
    I've added 44 pounds of dry acid over the past 2 weeks and the Ph is still reading >9 on my home test, verified at pool store.
    It hasn't budged. I have to run my SWG at 85% 24 hours a day just to maintain the chlorine levels due to such a high Ph.
    In my experience higher pH actually stabilizes Sodium Hypochlorite, it's the acid you're adding that's reacting it out of the liquor.

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    Re: Ph through the roof

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Neckerson View Post
    In my experience higher pH actually stabilizes Sodium Hypochlorite, it's the acid you're adding that's reacting it out of the liquor.
    With your name and your signature, I'm not sure if I should take your comment with a grain of salt. (eh!?) I am not even sure I understand what you are saying- that by adding acid to bring it in to recommended range I am causing the chlorine levels to go down? Hmmm....
    Inground Pool Completed April 2015
    Salt Water Generator- Nature 2 Fusion Soft
    33,500 gallons, Gunite/White Plaster
    Cartridge Filtration
    Heat Pump

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Ph through the roof

    High pH in water inhibits the Hypochlorite conversion to Hypochlorous acid. This is what does the work. The presence of Cya in pool water let's FC be effective at a wider range of pH, up closer to 8.0... without it, the most general effective pH range for FC is about 7.2-7.5.
    TFP Moderator
    Essential Links:
    ABC's Of Pool Chemistry, Test Kits, SLAM Your Pool
    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

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