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Thread: help with order of adding chemicals?

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    help with order of adding chemicals?

    Just opened our inground today and here are my levels:

    CC- 0
    pH- 6.8
    TA- 70
    CYA- 0 (had gotten down to 0 by opening last year too)

    I have all the ingredients on hand to BBB it, except CYA which I'm running out to pick up now. When I return home, I'm not sure which order I should go in to start fixing things up. Borax and baking soda (less than the calculator calls for, since I'm adding both at once?) then CYA, then SLAM tomorrow? Or some bleach now too? I know I can't get accurate CYA reading til next week, and I will follow the recommended methods here to add it, but I don't want to screw anything up by doing any of these things out of order.

    Help set a girl straight if you wouldn't mind...?
    18Kgallon IG vinyl liner
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Hey,

    What does your water look like? 20 mule team borax will be first but then we'll get the CYA in there and some chlorine (you forgot to post FC)

    Tell us about your water clarity and we'll be able to suggest dosages for you.

    Have you seen PoolMath? Are you comfortable enough with it to calc your dosages?
    Dave S.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    You don't need baking soda, TA is fine.
    You should raise the pH into the 7s with borax.
    You should get the CYA dissolving in a sock.
    You should get 2ppm of FC in the water.'

    They can all be done virtually at the same time.
    I would go, pH, get the CYA dissolving, then add some FC ... verify the pH in 30+ minutes.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Welcome. You are correct on what you need to do. First get your PH up to 7.2 if you think you need to SLAM. You will need to add bleach to get some chlorine in. I would shoot for CYA of 30 for now. You can add granular stablizer to a sock and set it in your skimmer to dissolve. PH first though.
    Lisa
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Oops, forgot to mention how my water looks... slightly cloudy but overall good-- once hubbie got all the worms out : )
    Also, I meant my FC was 0.

    Thanks everyone, I just got back with my CYA but I have a NEW question now before I get started...

    Hubbie heard about a product from his brother that is apparently the best thing ever, "Supreme Plus". Apparently it will allow me to add much less chlorine and keep my pH the same and overall just make everything much easier and cleaner. Brother-in-law does not use BBB method though so I don't know if this is something that will work for us.

    I can start a new thread if you suggest but I figured I'd ask here quickly bc one of you maybe has an easy/quick answer? If this is indeed a good product for us to use, I wonder how it should be incorporated with my other steps... as the way it's described to me, it may cancel some of them out?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and yes I've used the pool calculator before many times. Such a gift!!!
    18Kgallon IG vinyl liner
    Hayward DE 4820 filter
    Baltimore MD in full sun til 5pm
    plenty of leafy trees around : )

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Forget about magic potions ... they are bogus and will cost you more in the long run. Nothing allows you to safely have lower FC levels than what we recommend.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Supreme Plus is just borates and a bunch of ingredients listed as "proprietary" ... do you really want to add things to your pool that they will not even tell you what it is?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Adding to jblizzle, there are no "magic" ingredients to pool care. We teach you to understand what you are adding to your pool and why. They teach you to believe in ghosts.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    The ardent worshippers of the pool god's temple always evangelize the newest potion from Its annual bag of tricks. Avoid the advice.
    Inground 13,200 gal Vinyl, Pentair 3/4 hp pump, Pentair Sand Dollar filter, Polaris 280

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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Ok I guess I'll skip it then... But I found another thread on here about it in the meantime that wasn't all negative, even from some of you experts... so I wonder, why the controversy?... plus the 'sparkling water' does sound nice; although I'm not sure exactly what that means since our water is always clear once I get going. Maybe that's what you're saying here, that if I stick with BBB I won't have the issues that would call for the Supreme Plus anyway? I don't know.

    Here are the claims from the other thread (entitled, "So you want to add borates to your pool--Why and How"):
    "1) more stable pH
    2) Algaestatic properties
    3) reduced chlorine usage
    4) silkier feeling water--less skin and eye irritation
    5) clearer, 'sparkling' water"


    1) my pH usually is pretty stable since I check it regularly
    2) never any algae issues since we started BBB 2 years ago
    3) I *would* love to add less bleach-- sometimes I add a gallon a day; is that excessive? Also our liner has been fading out pretty badly since we bought the house 2 summers ago and I'm not sure if that's due to all the bleach I add or just the fact that the liner is old and it'd be happening now anyway. But it's noticeable since we took over for sure, almost no pattern left on all the foot traffic areas and the bottom of the deep end.. where I add the bleach of course
    4) silkier feeling water sounds nice too
    5) again, not sure ours isn't already sparkling, would have to use it to compare I suppose.

    The thread goes on to say how I can achieve these results with Borax and muriatic acid but it sounds like I'd have to use *so much*, that the Supreme Plus would just be a lot easier. But if I'm to understand you guys now, I'm better off not doing either of those things? Just sticking with my current course of action. It hasn't done me wrong yet...

    The biggest worry of mine in the long run is the liner. We will be getting a new one in the next couple of years and I don't want the color/pattern on the bottom to start fading off right away...
    18Kgallon IG vinyl liner
    Hayward DE 4820 filter
    Baltimore MD in full sun til 5pm
    plenty of leafy trees around : )

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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    I went Borate this winter, and the pool is noticeably silkier and sparkly. Our hair after swimming is also softer imho.
    Inground 13,200 gal Vinyl, Pentair 3/4 hp pump, Pentair Sand Dollar filter, Polaris 280

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    My point was if you want to add borates (which are completely optional), you can do it for a LOT less $$ than paying for that product in its fancy package with its mystery ingredients.

    I got cardboard box mailed to me with 2 clear 25 pound bags of boric acid sitting in my shed ... I think is cost me 1/2 of what their fancy 45 pound bucket costs.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    My point was if you want to add borates (which are completely optional), you can do it for a LOT less $$ than paying for that product in its fancy package with its mystery ingredients.

    I got cardboard box mailed to me with 2 clear 25 pound bags of boric acid sitting in my shed ... I think is cost me 1/2 of what their fancy 45 pound bucket costs.
    What was the product, I used Borax and Muriatic acid.
    Inground 13,200 gal Vinyl, Pentair 3/4 hp pump, Pentair Sand Dollar filter, Polaris 280

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    boric acid (likely the same stuff that Supreme Plus is) ... see dudadiesel.com or them on Ebay.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    But I have to buy lots of muriatic acid too though, don't I?

    On another note, I'm going out to add my Borax and CYA now but the pool calculator says I need 96 oz of CYA, more than I'd anticipated (obviously should've punched my numbers in BEFORE running out, hehe). Anyway I only bought 64 oz of CYA... should I start by adding that now and retesting my CYA next week, or I can run back to the pool store first thing in the morning to return my 4lb CYA and grab the next larger size?
    18Kgallon IG vinyl liner
    Hayward DE 4820 filter
    Baltimore MD in full sun til 5pm
    plenty of leafy trees around : )

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Well what you have will only get you to 27ppm ... up to you if you want to use it and then add more or go exchange it (not sure if there is a price break).

    To add borates you either add muriatic acid + borax ... or ... boric acid which is close to pH neutral.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Quote Originally Posted by flarfum25 View Post
    Oops, forgot to mention how my water looks... slightly cloudy but overall good-- Also, I meant my FC was 0.
    This is your #1 problem. If you don't get some chlorine in that pool pronto it is going to go from cloudy to green in no time. FC must be maintained above the minimum level at all times for your CYA according to this Chlorine CYA Chart.
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Ok so I got my water clear and my levels are looking good now--

    FC-- 5, I only did the quick test so it's probably higher, but it has stayed since yesterday morning
    pH-- 7.4 (I'll bring it back to 7.2 before I SLAM)
    TA-- 80
    CYA-- I'll test when my 2 socks are empty

    So my question: I placed one sock in the skimmer basket and one on a line in front of the return. The one in the basket is almost empty already, after less then 24 hours. The one in front of the return keeps falling to the side and isn't getting whirled around like I'd hopes so I will move it to the basket as soon as the one there is empty. But the filter pressure has risen from 18 to 23 and I'm wondering... that seems kinda high?

    I'm not supposed to backwash for a week after adding the CYA right? And that week starts after the sock is empty, right? My sock is nowhere near covering the entire basket. When I first put it in, it covered about half but now I've held it up above the bottom some with a line, plus it's almost empty so there's plenty of free space in there.

    Also I've had the filter running 24/7 since we opened almost 2 days ago, since we had to get levels up and I wanted my CYA to swirl...
    Should I do anything?
    18Kgallon IG vinyl liner
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    Baltimore MD in full sun til 5pm
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    You are not supposed to backwash if you just dumped the CYA into the skimmer to be sucked into the filter. Since you got it to mostly dissolve first, you would not likely lose much by backwashing at this point.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    If your water flow is good right now there isn't any real harm in waiting a week anyway.
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    Re: help with order of adding chemicals?

    Ok cool, maybe I'll wait til at least my second sock is empty as long as the pressure doesn't keep going up. Thanks guys!

    I can't say enough about how grateful I am for this site and everyone's quick help. Is the best way to express that gratitude to make occasional donations? Having people right on hand that I can trust is worth a lot, especially considering without you guys I'd have probably spent hundreds on unnecessary products at the pool store!
    18Kgallon IG vinyl liner
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    plenty of leafy trees around : )

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