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Thread: Getting rid of pool store.....help

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    Angry Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Opened pool for the 2nd year in a row with same trouble!!!
    Closed pool with a chlorine reading of 9.7 & crystal clear water. Early Spring storm blew off our cover & some of the rain water & debris went into the pool! Took a water sample in to our pool place & were told not to follow the directions, just to put 50lbs of bioguard super soluble & 28 gallons of liquid chlorine in over a period of 2 days. We were told that it is in "chlorine lock". Chlorine registered at 0.3 when first opened before adding anything. We went through this "chlorine lock" business last year & just about went broke....not doing it again this year. We purchased our test kit & want to try on our own. These are the results we got:
    Ammonia = Between 1-3
    PH = Not registering (Yellow)
    Acid Demand = we ran out of room after adding 35 drops
    Cyanuric Acid = 54PPM
    Calcium Hardness = Purple After 7 drops it stayed purple
    FC = 1.2PPM
    CC = 0.6PPM
    Total Alkalinity = 160PPM
    At this point filter needs backwashed!!
    Where should we go from here????
    30,000Gal, Vinyl, IG, Pentair Superflow 1.5HP, Pentair FNS P60 DE Filter, Hayward Chlorine Feed CL200, Dolphin Supreme M5, Taylor K-2006C FAS-DPD Test Kit

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    First thing is to get the pH in line, but double check that test, the test should read anything at or below 6.8 as 6.8.

    Then I would suggest redoing the CYA test to make sure you have it right, it can be hard to read, and can be skewed if not done correctly see this video for tips
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxaqoW-_MCs

    this is for the TF-100, but thing should be similar for the K-2006

    Now for one more question, what does your water look like now?

    p.s. that 50 pounds of dichlor should have shot your CYA through the roof to the point of needed to drain most of your water and replace, this is the main reason I want you to retest. You may want to fix the pH before retesting though as I think I read once that extreme low pH can skew the CYA test
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Welcome to TFP! You will find lots of help here. Just follow everything exactly and if you have questions please ask. Congrats on taking your pool over with your own test kit!
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Just for giggles, I looked up chlorine lock. The first google entry talked about it having to do with high ph and the second, high CYA. The first entry did use the word mythical. I thought that was a good touch. Here is another part of a definition. "Chlorine lock is an invisible, made up, falsehood, fable, urban legend, which has been told by big chlorine manufacturers and ..."
    SCon36

    24,000 Gallon IG vinyl pool (16x36x8) with Hayward S200 sand filter and Hayward pump and heat pump. Built August 2011. I use a Taylor K-2005 test kit with a K-1515 add on.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIgL...0MyAw&index=29

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Welcome to TFP!

    Here are some intro Pool School articles to read
    TFPC for Beginners
    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry

    Here are the Recommended Levels for your pool.
    Here are the Recommended Pool Chemicals to maintain your pool.
    Use PoolMath to figure out how much to add.
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    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Welcome, Kspan. We'll be happy to help you get un-pool-stored"

    As issac mentioned, your CYA reading should be double checked for accuracy because normally, using that much dichlor -- the powder shock you bought -- adds a lot of CYA.

    However, you also show an ammonia reading. Did you get your own ammonia test too, or is that from the pool store?

    If that's a reliable ammonia test and the number is true, after you've adjusted your ph to 7.2 you will want to hit it very hard to get rid of the ammonia, which, if present, will be consuming your chlorine almost immediately.

    To get rid of the ammonia, you'll need to add liquid chlorine to your "SLAM" value according to the cya:FC chart (see my signature) and then test in a half hour and add again until its "holding" an FC level for a few hours and/or the ammonia tests zero.

    Ammonia sometimes develops when high levels of cya break down in certain swampy conditions. It takes a lot of chlorine to clear.

    The upside of having ammonia, if there is one, is that it means if you had high levels of cya before, they're now gone.

    Eg., had you not used powdered shock, you'd likely have had 0 cya reading If you now stop using anything that has CYA, (so only us bleach/liquid chlorine, which has none) you should have a better season this year -- just use the cya:FC ratio for your number from the chart link in my signature.

    Once your ammonia reads zero and the water is "holding" a decent chlorine level for more than an hour, you're then into the more normal "SLAM" method described in pool school.

    The best tip I can give you is to stay "ahead" of the multiplying algae by never letting your FC drop below the slam level indicated for your pool type and cya level. That means if your number was 12, dose to 14 or 16 to have the level be 12 the next time you can test and add bleach/chlorine, and try to be testing/adding every few hours in the beginning. Over time, you will be able to go for longer stretches between additions.

    But each time it drops below slam value is time the algae catches up, which prolongs the effort considerably. So if you have to work during the day, try to get home at lunch to test/add if you can.

    Best wishes for a smooth Slam and a trouble free summer!
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Hello kspan

    I will follow your thread, read and give you encouragement but you are in some very capable hands here. I just wanted to add my .02. I was you about a month ago - the pool store told me that I was in a chlorine lock AGAIN this year and that I needed to 'shock' using their incredibly expensive stuff every two days and that they 'hoped' it would help. My next question to BOTH employees standing there was 'What does that mean? What is a chlorine lock and how does it happen?' Their response was 'I don't know, we just know how to fix it. Maybe you can find something on the internet.' And this is how I got here … and it was the best thing they have ever done for me. I am in complete control of my pool, I test my water at home instead of spending the hour plus getting it tested by them and spending $50+ every time I went in. On that note - I almost became friends with these people over the last two years I was there so much. I don't think they were being manipulative or sneaky - they really didn't know. Which made me realize I NEEDED to know …

    Good luck and you will be one happy pool owner with the TFP knowledge and support soon
    Thanks!!
    18ft x 36ft 24500 gal vinyl liner inground
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    Defgufman's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Welcome to TFP. You'll be glad you took control of the pool in no time.
    Inground 13,200 gal Vinyl, Pentair 3/4 hp pump, Pentair Sand Dollar filter, Polaris 280

    Pool School, Pool Math, CYA to FC ratio chart, Testing Kits

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    The Water is cloudy & you can slightly see the bottom in the shallow end. You said 1st thing was to get pH in line---how do I do that?
    30,000Gal, Vinyl, IG, Pentair Superflow 1.5HP, Pentair FNS P60 DE Filter, Hayward Chlorine Feed CL200, Dolphin Supreme M5, Taylor K-2006C FAS-DPD Test Kit

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    If you will refer to these links http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...ater-chemistry and http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...pool-chemicals you will see that pH can be raised with the addition of borax, soda ash or through aeration, yours is so low that aeration is probably not a practical option. This leaves Borax or Soda ash, both are commonly available in larger grocery stores, some dollar stores, etc. Borax is available as 20 Mule TeamŪ Borax Natural Laundry Booster and Soda ash is available as ARM & HAMMERŪ Super Washing Soda Detergent Booster. If you have pets that routinely drink from your pool I would suggest using Soda ash, as Borax leaves behind Borates which have long term health issues if ingested in LARGE amounts. The exact amount can be calculated using the pool math calculator link at the top of this page http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html just fill in your details, don't forget to select TFP method and type of pool you have at the bottom of the page.

    When adjusting pH go in small steps when large adjustments like yours are needed as the calculated amount may be less than precise due to TA changes, etc. I would aim for a .3 - .4 ppm change, retest and repeat as needed on about a 1 hour cycle with the pump running.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Help! We backwashed the pool & let it cycle overnight---pool is now cloudy, you cant see the bottom anymore! Tested the water:
    pH = 7.0 (I did the base demand test & added 9 drops to get to 7.4)
    TA = 150ppm
    CYA = 50ppm
    Ammonia = 3.0
    FC didn't register pink at all.
    I did buy Borax & baking soda but I also have about a third of a container of super soluble left & I didn't know if I should use that up?
    Not sure where to go from here! I'm nervous to follow the pool calculator only because this is the first time!!!
    30,000Gal, Vinyl, IG, Pentair Superflow 1.5HP, Pentair FNS P60 DE Filter, Hayward Chlorine Feed CL200, Dolphin Supreme M5, Taylor K-2006C FAS-DPD Test Kit

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Did it suddenly get cloudy, how has the FC been leading up to today, (what has been going on for the last week). At this point I would suggest adding about 4 pounds of Borax (or a box full if it is around 4 pounds) wait an hour and retest pH, repeat if needed. Then start SLAM process by raising your FC to shock level.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Can someone also tell me where do you add the borax to---directly in the pool or in the skimmers?

    - - - Updated - - -

    It got cloudy over night after we back washed it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The pool calculator also told me to add 1 gallon & 1 cup of bleach. I'm so used to adding gallons upon gallons of stuff that it just didn't seem right! lol
    30,000Gal, Vinyl, IG, Pentair Superflow 1.5HP, Pentair FNS P60 DE Filter, Hayward Chlorine Feed CL200, Dolphin Supreme M5, Taylor K-2006C FAS-DPD Test Kit

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Quote Originally Posted by kspan View Post
    Help! We backwashed the pool & let it cycle overnight---pool is now cloudy, you cant see the bottom anymore! Tested the water:
    pH = 7.0 (I did the base demand test & added 9 drops to get to 7.4)
    TA = 150ppm
    CYA = 50ppm
    Ammonia = 3.0
    FC didn't register pink at all.
    I did buy Borax & baking soda but I also have about a third of a container of super soluble left & I didn't know if I should use that up?
    Not sure where to go from here! I'm nervous to follow the pool calculator only because this is the first time!!!
    NO!

    Bioguard Super Soluble is stabilized - that means it will add more CYA. Don't use it. Save it for later in the summer.

    Your pH was somewhere below the tester range, so it's not unusual that you don't hit your pH target exactly with just one dose. Just plug your numbers into poolmath and try again, No more baking soda, only Borax. And you dissolve it in a bucket first. What to add to fix what and how to add it is all covered in Recommended Pool Chemicals.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Is that also going to eliminate the Ammonia level?
    30,000Gal, Vinyl, IG, Pentair Superflow 1.5HP, Pentair FNS P60 DE Filter, Hayward Chlorine Feed CL200, Dolphin Supreme M5, Taylor K-2006C FAS-DPD Test Kit

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    Defgufman's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    No baking soda, your TA Is high right now
    Inground 13,200 gal Vinyl, Pentair 3/4 hp pump, Pentair Sand Dollar filter, Polaris 280

    Pool School, Pool Math, CYA to FC ratio chart, Testing Kits

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Quote Originally Posted by kspan View Post
    Is that also going to eliminate the Ammonia level?
    No. The fix for Ammonia is a whole lotta bleach. You have Ammonia, you have cloudy water, you need to SLAM the pool. The firtst step is setting the pH to about 7.2. Then you'll just forget about everything but FC and CC until the process is complete.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Here is the process for SLAMing Your Pool
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    I'm sorry I just feel like an idiot---I have read the SLAMing your pool & on the chart for FC level, shock FC is 20 for me. So does that mean I have to get it to 20? I'm going home tonite & putting in the 4lbs of Borax--test in 1 hour to see if pH is up to 7.2. Then I'm just gonna pour the bleach in by the gallon until I get to 20!!!
    30,000Gal, Vinyl, IG, Pentair Superflow 1.5HP, Pentair FNS P60 DE Filter, Hayward Chlorine Feed CL200, Dolphin Supreme M5, Taylor K-2006C FAS-DPD Test Kit

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of pool store.....help

    Quote Originally Posted by kspan View Post
    I'm sorry I just feel like an idiot---I have read the SLAMing your pool & on the chart for FC level, shock FC is 20 for me. So does that mean I have to get it to 20? I'm going home tonite & putting in the 4lbs of Borax--test in 1 hour to see if pH is up to 7.2. Then I'm just gonna pour the bleach in by the gallon until I get to 20!!!
    Ah - you've been reading! Good! You understand that one round of Borax may not be enough to budge the color on the pH test.

    As for dumping gallons of bleach...It's easier to use poolmath. Add what it says to get to 20 with the pump running. Brush a little to help mix it. Check again in 30 to 60 minutes. It will likely be waaaay down. CC will be waaaaay up. The Ammonia will consume FC almost as fast as you can pour it. It might take 3 or 4 additions until the FC starts to hang around. Then you keep the FC up at 20 until the water clears and the CC all disappears. Then you run the overnight test. Remember, brushing helps mix the chemicals, and it also breaks the slimy scab off any algae so the bleach can kill it. Don't forget to brush!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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