Re-plumbing of supply lines

[mgill]

Ok, first plumbing project complete, thanks again to everyone for their help. That project is located here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/90907-Replacing-Solar-Valve-How-much-to-do

There is a second area of my pool plumbing that is giving me problems - the area is more complicated than the first project. I have included a hand sketch below along with a photo. Its the plumbing area on the supply side on the way back to the pool and hot tub. Key history note - a few years back my primary pump seized and I had it replaced. The old pump was 2.5hp, the replacement pump is 2hp. Long story short the original plumbing was tuned to the 2.5hp pump - the flow hasnt been quite right since Ive been running the 2hp pump. Here are the key problems I'm having:

1. When the primary pump switches off the water drains from the hot tub back into the pool. The right angle check valve on the main line is an old Ortega model and Ive replaced the internal part multiple times. The smaller check valve on the 1" line I assume is no longer working as well. So I need to replace the check valves.
2. With the 3 way diverter valve closed to the hot tub and the solar is off I get a good waterfall coming out of the hot tub while the pump is running (the system is using the 1 inch line to still get water through). If the solar turns on the waterfall from the hot tub to the pool slows to a dribble. This used to work with the old 2.5hp pump but no longer works with the 2hp.
3. Not a problem per se but I want to eventually install a control system on the pool so its not all manual. I dont want to do anything here that makes that hard to do later.

So, I'm assuming I need to replumb this entire area. In the sketch below I have noted with the red arrows where I think I need to cut. I'm looking for validation of my plan:

1. Cut out the plumbing per the diagram below
2. Replace old 90 degree Ortega check valve with a new Jandy straight line one that will be a few inches lower in the system. (all of this is below the current hot tub water line by at least two feet)
3. Insert isolation valves on both supply lines to the pool and hot tub to help compensate for my weaker pump. I assume I need these to adjust the waterfall flow - when I move to a control system the current solution of a jandy valve turned part way wont be possible.

Questions about my plan:

1. I assume moving to a straight check valve and removing the old 90 degree one is ok, correct?
2. Is there a better way to plumb the 1 inch pvc that keeps some water always running to the hot tub?
3. I cant figure out how to cut after the inline chlorinator - I have to cut above it in the line. I can either replace it with a new one or should I consider inserting a salt system at this point?
4. Any issues with my idea to insert isolation valves?

Thanks everyone. Looking forward to good discussion on this.

Mark

 

[Azgirl71]

Sorry no one has replied yet. I don't know plumbing but want to bump your post for you.

 

[zea3]

Hi, I am going to reply in red within the body or your post. I also want to say, that .5 hp drop should not have made that a huge difference in the pump's performance. Can you post a picture of the pump's label of specifications? If you have the old pump's specifications that would be great too.

Ok, first plumbing project complete, thanks again to everyone for their help. That project is located here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/90907-Replacing-Solar-Valve-How-much-to-do

There is a second area of my pool plumbing that is giving me problems - the area is more complicated than the first project. I have included a hand sketch below along with a photo. Its the plumbing area on the supply side on the way back to the pool and hot tub. Key history note - a few years back my primary pump seized and I had it replaced. The old pump was 2.5hp, the replacement pump is 2hp. Long story short the original plumbing was tuned to the 2.5hp pump - the flow hasnt been quite right since Ive been running the 2hp pump. Here are the key problems I'm having:

1. When the primary pump switches off the water drains from the hot tub back into the pool. The right angle check valve on the main line is an old Ortega model and Ive replaced the internal part multiple times. The smaller check valve on the 1" line I assume is no longer working as well. So I need to replace the check valves.
2. With the 3 way diverter valve closed to the hot tub and the solar is off I get a good waterfall coming out of the hot tub while the pump is running (the system is using the 1 inch line to still get water through). If the solar turns on the waterfall from the hot tub to the pool slows to a dribble. This used to work with the old 2.5hp pump but no longer works with the 2hp.
3. Not a problem per se but I want to eventually install a control system on the pool so its not all manual. I dont want to do anything here that makes that hard to do later.

So, I'm assuming I need to replumb this entire area. In the sketch below I have noted with the red arrows where I think I need to cut. I'm looking for validation of my plan:

1. Cut out the plumbing per the diagram below
2. Replace old 90 degree Ortega check valve with a new Jandy straight line one that will be a few inches lower in the system. (all of this is below the current hot tub water line by at least two feet)
3. Insert isolation valves on both supply lines to the pool and hot tub to help compensate for my weaker pump. I assume I need these to adjust the waterfall flow - when I move to a control system the current solution of a jandy valve turned part way wont be possible.

Questions about my plan:

1. I assume moving to a straight check valve and removing the old 90 degree one is ok, correct?Yes.
2. Is there a better way to plumb the 1 inch pvc that keeps some water always running to the hot tub?
3. I cant figure out how to cut after the inline chlorinator - I have to cut above it in the line. I can either replace it with a new one or should I consider inserting a salt system at this point? Just take out the chlorinator and put in an equivalent length of pvc. You can always add an SWG later if you want.
4. Any issues with my idea to insert isolation valves? Sounds like a good plan.

Thanks everyone. Looking forward to good discussion on this.

Mark

 

[robl45]

Do you mean the spa completely empties? I've had 2 houses with spa's and they always drain down when the pump is off. usually about half way or so.

Ok, first plumbing project complete, thanks again to everyone for their help. That project is located here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/90907-Replacing-Solar-Valve-How-much-to-do

There is a second area of my pool plumbing that is giving me problems - the area is more complicated than the first project. I have included a hand sketch below along with a photo. Its the plumbing area on the supply side on the way back to the pool and hot tub. Key history note - a few years back my primary pump seized and I had it replaced. The old pump was 2.5hp, the replacement pump is 2hp. Long story short the original plumbing was tuned to the 2.5hp pump - the flow hasnt been quite right since Ive been running the 2hp pump. Here are the key problems I'm having:

1. When the primary pump switches off the water drains from the hot tub back into the pool. The right angle check valve on the main line is an old Ortega model and Ive replaced the internal part multiple times. The smaller check valve on the 1" line I assume is no longer working as well. So I need to replace the check valves.
2. With the 3 way diverter valve closed to the hot tub and the solar is off I get a good waterfall coming out of the hot tub while the pump is running (the system is using the 1 inch line to still get water through). If the solar turns on the waterfall from the hot tub to the pool slows to a dribble. This used to work with the old 2.5hp pump but no longer works with the 2hp.
3. Not a problem per se but I want to eventually install a control system on the pool so its not all manual. I dont want to do anything here that makes that hard to do later.

So, I'm assuming I need to replumb this entire area. In the sketch below I have noted with the red arrows where I think I need to cut. I'm looking for validation of my plan:

1. Cut out the plumbing per the diagram below
2. Replace old 90 degree Ortega check valve with a new Jandy straight line one that will be a few inches lower in the system. (all of this is below the current hot tub water line by at least two feet)
3. Insert isolation valves on both supply lines to the pool and hot tub to help compensate for my weaker pump. I assume I need these to adjust the waterfall flow - when I move to a control system the current solution of a jandy valve turned part way wont be possible.

Questions about my plan:

1. I assume moving to a straight check valve and removing the old 90 degree one is ok, correct?
2. Is there a better way to plumb the 1 inch pvc that keeps some water always running to the hot tub?
3. I cant figure out how to cut after the inline chlorinator - I have to cut above it in the line. I can either replace it with a new one or should I consider inserting a salt system at this point?
4. Any issues with my idea to insert isolation valves?

Thanks everyone. Looking forward to good discussion on this.

Mark

 

[mgill]

Thanks everyone. A few follow ups:

For the spa - it just drains down to the level of the jets. Not a complete drain out. I'm pretty convinced that its one (or both) of the check valves in this section of the plumbing I'm about to repair unless someone convinces me otherwise.

As for the pump change comments from @zea3 here are the links to the specs for the old a new pumps. When the old one seized the pool guy that fixed it swore I should go from the original 2.5hp pump to a 1hp pump to save money. I did it and could barely move enough water to even make the pool viable. After much negotiation he came back out and put in the 2hp pump I have today. When the solar is closed everything is great. The key difference is when the solar valve is open the system is moving water to the roof of the house which is 2 stories high. With the old Hayward pump the spa waterfall worked, after the pool guy switched the pumps the waterfall is barely functional. Did he do something else when he installed? Maybe -- I've got no way of knowing. In hindsight I wish I would have done more research when he did the work but I needed it fixed quickly. Kicking myself for that hasty decision for sure.

Both are single speed pumps.

Old pump - Hayward Super II Pump SP-3020X25 - http://www.hayward-pool.com/shop/Product_10201_10551_13003_-1_14002__I
New pump - Waterway Champion 2hp - http://www.waterwayplastics.com/products/pool-products/pumps/in-ground-pumps/champion-56-frame3/

 

[robl45]

For the spa- my new house does that and my old house did that every single night. I'm pretty sure that's normal.

Thanks everyone. A few follow ups:

For the spa - it just drains down to the level of the jets. Not a complete drain out. I'm pretty convinced that its one (or both) of the check valves in this section of the plumbing I'm about to repair unless someone convinces me otherwise.

As for the pump change comments from @zea3 here are the links to the specs for the old a new pumps. When the old one seized the pool guy that fixed it swore I should go from the original 2.5hp pump to a 1hp pump to save money. I did it and could barely move enough water to even make the pool viable. After much negotiation he came back out and put in the 2hp pump I have today. When the solar is closed everything is great. The key difference is when the solar valve is open the system is moving water to the roof of the house which is 2 stories high. With the old Hayward pump the spa waterfall worked, after the pool guy switched the pumps the waterfall is barely functional. Did he do something else when he installed? Maybe -- I've got no way of knowing. In hindsight I wish I would have done more research when he did the work but I needed it fixed quickly. Kicking myself for that hasty decision for sure.

Both are single speed pumps.

Old pump - Hayward Super II Pump SP-3020X25 - http://www.hayward-pool.com/shop/Product_10201_10551_13003_-1_14002__I
New pump - Waterway Champion 2hp - http://www.waterwayplastics.com/products/pool-products/pumps/in-ground-pumps/champion-56-frame3/

 

[mgill]

For the spa- my new house does that and my old house did that every single night. I'm pretty sure that's normal.

I am assuming for my pool this is not the case for a few reasons:

1. For the first 8 years I owned the pool the spa stayed full
2. I dont understand the value of multiple check valves in the supply line for the spa if they aren't there to keep water in the spa
3. The top 24 inches of the plaster in the spa is clearly deteriorating from exposure to the air every night. There is one area where the air has corroded a piece of the structure just below the surface and Ive got rust spots now as well.

Everything Ive got going on here indicates to me that I need to get back to the spa staying full.