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Thread: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

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    iam4iam's Avatar
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    Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    For more information on this pool see How to vacuum to waste correctly . Zea3

    I have friend who just took off the cover of her 18x36 swamp. They just purchased the house in December. Of course, pictures of the house when it was on the market showed a pretty blue pool, but I'm suspecting the pictures weren't from last year. I wouldn't be surprised if the pool has been covered for a few years. The only way you can tell the which end is the deep end is from the diving board bolts. You can literally only see about 18" into it. I measured CYA and it's less than 30 (probably <20, but I only used 10 ml of water since I was assuming the level would be high so I couldn't fill past the 30 mark. I know there is some CYA, since the water was a bit cloudy, but not much. Anyway, I told her if it were my pool, I would seriously consider draining and refilling. It would cost <$150 in water to refill, and I'm thinking she could easily spend more than that on bleach (or whatever chlorinating agent she chose, the only other reasonable choice being cal-hypo since pH is right on target at 7.2 and dichlor or trichlor would mess with that) to try to kill the green monster. Based on the color of the water, I'm thinking the slam will take AT LEAST a week and probably 2! Do you agree that she should look for a place to drain? Figured I'd see what the experts say about the draining option before she wastes CYA to bring it to 30 and SLAM.

    PS I told her last month she should uncover it while the water temp was sure to still be <60, but she just never found the time. It may have still been green even then, but it would have been much easier to SLAM!
    ~18,000 gal (16x32)
    Hayward sand filter
    Circupool RJ45 SWG
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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    Is this a vinyl liner pool? How high is the local water table? Are there restrictions on where water can be discharged? If the pool is drained and refilled is there a sewer charge equal to the amount of water used? There are many reasons why we discourage draining pools. If the pool pops out of the ground or the liner is displaced it will cost a lot more to repair than she would be spending on bleach.
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    thats a tough question to answer. Generally we would recommend if its 5K gallons or less, then drain. Otherwise go with what you have.

    If its been covered for long time, then no telling how much gunk is on the bottom that has to be gotten out too. A quick trip around with a leaf rake my shed some light on that. The more gunk gotten off the bottom, the better.

    The thing about draining. If its a vinyl pool, teh liner will most likely have to be replaced. draining a vinyl pool is death sentence for the liner. If not replaced, then at best, it will have bad wrinkles in it when refilled and at worse, will tear away during the refill and have to replace it anyway.

    For a plaster pool, there is always teh risk of the pool popping because of hydrostatic pressure. So, due diligence is in order on that subject.

    In either case, a slam is going to be required even if it is drained. The algae can life in the nooks and crannes and pores of plaster for a while and then bloom back up when the water arrives. It surely wouldnt take as long as it would now though.
    Divin Dave,
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    I might consider draining it half way and refilling so you can see what you got to deal with more easily.
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    Thanks for the quick replies! It is a vinyl liner, and water table is pretty low.* Regardless, it sounds like it would not be wise to drain from Divin Dave's "death sentence" prediction. When my pool was drained, the old liner seemed to stay in place pretty well, but I can definitely understand the risk potential, so thanks for the input. Am I crazy to think it could take upwards of $150 in bleach to beat the green monster living in her pool?

    *My pool is sitting empty waiting for an upgrade from sand to Vermiculite on the bottom. I finally gave in to the liner replacement that has been needed since we bought the house 3 years ago. It's amazing how many ways you can patch a liner if you don't care about what it looks like! My patches include a kitchen trash bag and an arm floaty!)
    ~18,000 gal (16x32)
    Hayward sand filter
    Circupool RJ45 SWG
    Hayward Max-Flo XL SP2305X7 pump (0.75 HP)

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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    You can always use the "fill as you drain method".. Just uses more water.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyp View Post
    You can always use the "fill as you drain method".. Just uses more water.
    I was just thinking the same thing...lol
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    In this "fill as you drain" method, doesn't the new water get contaminated rather quickly anyway? How much FC should be present during drain and refill? Can anyone confirm my estimate of bleach cost? (Just under $10 for 3 118 oz (I think) jugs of 8.25% at Sam's Club is the cheapest available here.)
    ~18,000 gal (16x32)
    Hayward sand filter
    Circupool RJ45 SWG
    Hayward Max-Flo XL SP2305X7 pump (0.75 HP)

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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    They are probably 128oz jugs
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    That would be logical, wouldn't it. Actually, they are 121 oz! The old 6% jugs were 182 oz. It was a sly way to jip the consumer: decrease volume to 2/3 of original, and not increase concentration to necessary 3/2 of original (8.25% instead of necessary 9%) to maintain same total amount of NaHClO!
    2015-05-09 21.30.26.jpg
    ~18,000 gal (16x32)
    Hayward sand filter
    Circupool RJ45 SWG
    Hayward Max-Flo XL SP2305X7 pump (0.75 HP)

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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    I meant to say 121 ozs...lol 128ozs is a gallon
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    If they are able to vacuum to waste, they could be doing that in the shallow end while running the hose in the deep end. Muck out the pool first regardless of what you do.
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    Quote Originally Posted by zea3 View Post
    If they are able to vacuum to waste, they could be doing that in the shallow end while running the hose in the deep end. Muck out the pool first regardless of what you do.
    What do you mean by "muck out"? Are you talking about getting muck off the bottom? Not so easy when you can't see the bottom. Are you saying vacuum blindly (by feel) assuming (save assumption) that there is muck down there?
    ~18,000 gal (16x32)
    Hayward sand filter
    Circupool RJ45 SWG
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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    Mucking out means getting the pool rake and blindly scooping up whatever leaves and debris may be down there. If there is nothing to scoop up then you vacuum up algae and dirt that may be on the floor of the pool.
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    Use a leaf rake and net to see if you can bring anything up.
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    That makes sense. Thanks.

    Still looking for confirmation on my estimate of $ of bleach that may be needed to finish the SLAM. Am I in the ballpark? For my friend's sake, I'm hoping someone will tell me that is outrageously high! I'm already working on convincing her to invest in a TF-100 (without which I know she won't be able to monitor the SLAM properly*).

    *I suppose she could dilute the sample and use the OTO chlorine test with some accuracy.
    ~18,000 gal (16x32)
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    You never know how much bleach a SLAM might take. It really varies pool to pool
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    Still looking for confirmation on my estimate of $ of bleach that may be needed to finish the SLAM. Am I in the ballpark? For my friend's sake, I'm hoping someone will tell me that is outrageously high!
    It is absolutely not too high. It would be impossible to give a "ballpark" because each pool is wildly different. It sounds like this one has been neglected badly for a long time and there is a price to be paid.

    Drain and refill is always an option but keep in mind you will still have a contaminated, unchlorinated pool that will have to be SLAMmed, just not as intensely.

    I would personally favor a partial drain and refill and then a SLAM. All that after you have removed as much physical debris and sludge as you possibly can.

    There is not going to be a cheap, quick fix.
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    I have to add, she cannot do the SLAM with the OTO test. It's fine to use when you know for certain there is no CC, but there will be CC in this case. Also, and most importantly, the range is simply not high enough.
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    Re: Is there such thing as too green to bother slamming?

    After watching a number of SLAMs this spring it is becoming apparent to me that the more diligent the SLAMmer is the less bleach will be used. Failing to keep FC at shock level multiple times per day and brushing allows the algae to continue to propagate and consume more and more bleach. In fact, it seems to me that a low level inconsistent SLAM could conceivably go on forever because the algae is never fully eradicated.

    So, to bring it around to answering the question of how much bleach is needed. A whole lot more will be needed without a test kit than with a test kit. It is like driving in the dark, you don't know where you are or where you will end up if you don't turn the headlights on.
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