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Thread: Solar heating & Pump Advice please

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    MrsDimples's Avatar
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    Solar heating & Pump Advice please

    Hi everyone, I've been purposefully missing for a couple of months, I'll explain when I do a catch up thread - putting the new pool up We've bought a Bestway 12' 48' metal frame for now

    I want to put some solar heating on the roof of our one storey, flat roofed, kitchen extension, it's less than 9' high.

    This is the solar system I'm looking at the 4m2 kit -

    http://www.splashandrelax.co.uk/prod...productOptions


    and upgrading the pump, to this one -

    http://www.splashandrelax.co.uk/prod...ump/3330848869

    Will that have enough power to get it onto the roof?
    I think I've read on here sand filter pumps aren't great for solar heating .. . .

    My neighbour is handy man, & I'm hoping to get him to hard plumb it all & fix the panel on the roof, at an angle. It's south facing.

    And one of these -

    http://www.splashandrelax.co.uk/prod...lve/2346836668


    Any pointers, suggestions, don't do's etc will be happily welcomed
    Intex 10ft Metal Frame - 1,185 gallons
    Intex 530 gall. per hour Filter Pump (Model No. 58604) - Cartridge
    Chlorine / pH dip sticks
    Intex 3kw Heater

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Solar heating & Pump Advice please

    Will that have enough power to get it onto the roof?
    Probably not.

    Those types of AG setups, rarely have enough head for the lift required for roof mounted solar. Even if can get the water to the roof, I doubt it would properly prime the panels. About the only way you could get that to work is if you manually prime the panels (PITA) and don't allow them to drain when the pump is off (no VRV).
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Solar heating & Pump Advice please

    I agree chances are you will need a more powerful pump to get 9 ft lift, many pumps will have published head curves showing potential maximum water lift, but I don't see it in the details for this one. You might also want to read this article on EPDM solar panels http://www.h2otsun.com/epdm/
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    MrsDimples's Avatar
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    Re: Solar heating & Pump Advice please

    Thanks MAS985 & Isaac-1 would I be better sticking with the bestway cartridge pump & adding this ?

    http://www.splashandrelax.co.uk/prod...5HP/1152613329

    I'll have a good read of that article too . .. . not sure what my non EPDM options are
    Intex 10ft Metal Frame - 1,185 gallons
    Intex 530 gall. per hour Filter Pump (Model No. 58604) - Cartridge
    Chlorine / pH dip sticks
    Intex 3kw Heater

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Solar heating & Pump Advice please

    I don't see any head curve published on that one either, but I suspect to get 9 ft of lift you are going to need a pump in the 1 HP range. In fact to get the necessary lift you may need to go to a pump designed for an inground pool. If you were in the U.S. I could make a number of suggestions, but since you are in the UK with 50Hz power instead of the 60Hz we have in the US none of those directly translate due to running at lower motor speeds.

    Ike

    p.s. I found a UK site that sells pumps with a published head curve
    http://www.jacksons-camping.co.uk/swimming/pumps.htm

    If you notice the chart here .75KW (1hp) pump will lift 18 m3/hr at 4 meters of heat (this does NOT count backpressure added by your filter or other plumbing), you can use the pressure gauge readings on your filter as a rough estimate of additional head, however for that to work best you would need to do it while running the pump that you have a published head curve for. Plan on at least another 10 meters of head for the filter and plumbing for an estimated total of 15-20 meters of head for the system (note the above mentioned .75KW pump flow only 9 m3/hr at 16 meters lift, and its little brother .55kw flows only 6 m3/hr), A typical solar panel of the 4x12 ft size range needs 5 gpm for optimal heat transfer (5GPM = 1.1 m3/hr).
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Solar heating & Pump Advice please

    In my experience the label HP of a pump has little to do with it's capability. I use a 1/2 HP pump for my solar but it has a higher head curve than some 2 HP AG pumps. But I would talk to the company and make sure it would work ok. They have this on their web site:

    In many situations a pool's current filtration system would have adequate pressure to supply water to the solar collector, normally up to 8 metres high. Your water flow pressure is very dependent on the power of the filtration pump, plumbing configuration etc. For in-ground pools and above ground pools using sand filters it is likely that the pressure would be sufficient to allow the addition of a solar system. However, for smaller pools using a cartridge filter pump, this is unlikely to be the case.

    If you are unsure about the necessity for a booster pump, try using your existing filtration first!

    In the event that there is not enough water pressure you will need to invest in a booster pump and optional sun sensor. The booster pump will require a water supply utilising the Main Drain suction line.

    If a Booster Pump is to be installed on your solar system it is worth investing in a sun sensor that will enable you to gain the optimum heat energy available from the sun. A sun sensor is an electronic thermostat that will operate the Booster Pump when solar heat is available. In the event that there is no solar heat e.g. after dusk the control sensor will turn off the Booster Pump.
    So the original setup might work.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    MrsDimples's Avatar
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    Re: Solar heating & Pump Advice please

    Thanks for your input.

    This is driving me a little crazy. I feel like I won't know, til I've bought the stuff & set it up, to see if it will work & if not I'll have to empty the pool & resite things. Which isn't the end of the world, I guess, but it seemed like it, when I couldn't sleep last night & this was all I could think about

    We've spent a lot of money doing the front & back garden, (yards ), so we have space for a bigger pool and space to enjoy sitting out in an evening together as a family too - well just by the pool in the day, as well. . . . . so I don't have a big budget for much bigger pumps etc. If that is needed, I'll have to save til next summer / sell lots of stuff.

    Questions that came to me during my insomnia last night, if I hard plumb the pool, can I take the plumbing down at the end of the season? Especially if I do get the solar panel to work on the roof? i.e. the pipes that will have to be attached to the wall, to get up onto the roof.

    In case I have to go with a none roof scenario -

    I'm thinking once the solar panels are full of water, they will be very to move, so repositioning them, once the 'set up' is up, is not going to be an option without emptying them of water?

    Would a series of the Intex or Bestway panels, be preferable to the one I linked to above. I can't see what either of these are made from & the Intex mats seem to be more more available than the Bestway.

    There is a slightly more powerful Bestway sandfilter pump available I could get, but I wondered if I'd be better with a cartridge filter of the same power.

    Sand

    http://www.bestwayswimmingpools.co.u...ar-sand-filter


    Intex cartridge

    http://www.splashandrelax.co.uk/prod...FHr/2538814296


    Sorry for all the questions, I want to get everything ordered next week & this is a big decision for me
    Intex 10ft Metal Frame - 1,185 gallons
    Intex 530 gall. per hour Filter Pump (Model No. 58604) - Cartridge
    Chlorine / pH dip sticks
    Intex 3kw Heater

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Solar heating & Pump Advice please

    I wish I could point you to a good panel available in the UK, but unfortunately I only know the major US manufacturers. Here most of the Asian import panels are generally considered inferior, however it may be all that is available there. On the topic of plumbing here most people would leave hard plumbing up year round, but you could always use screw apart unions, and design it to be removed at the end of the season.

    I just don't see either of those two pumps as being powerful enough to lift water to roof top levels, the bestway pump is rated at 300 watts which is likely 1/2 HP at best, and of course there is the lack of published head curve again. As to the weight of the panels, these panels should be plumbed so they have a vacuum release valve and drain any time the pump is turned off, this is done to prolong the life of the panels.

    p.s.
    something that may be worth looking at

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Low-Density-...T7FZPJQA6SG6RP
    (price may be right, for a narrow mail order panel)
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  9. Back To Top    #9
    MrsDimples's Avatar
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    Re: Solar heating & Pump Advice please

    Thanks Isaac.

    Another thought, for the cost of the pump & solar panels, should I just invest in one of the cheaper heat pumps?
    Intex 10ft Metal Frame - 1,185 gallons
    Intex 530 gall. per hour Filter Pump (Model No. 58604) - Cartridge
    Chlorine / pH dip sticks
    Intex 3kw Heater

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Solar heating & Pump Advice please

    But then you have the ongoing expense of the heater. Do you have any room to place the panels like this:

    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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