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Thread: how much wider do they dig the hole? plumbing tomorrow. is the hole dug right?

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    how much wider do they dig the hole? plumbing tomorrow. is the hole dug right?

    our water's edge is supposed to be 5 ft from the block wall with a 16" coping. the form measures 4 ft from the wall. does that sound like they r going to leave me 3 1/2 feet space between the coping and the wall? i don't understand how a 16" coping would hang over that much on the inside of the pool. but the forms r 2 feet wider than i had asked for so i'm thinking they allow for one foot extra on the inside of the forms for plumbing, steel, shotcrete?

    might sound wierd but i don't want them to skimp me on that 3 1/2 foot space for growing plants. a couple inches off i can look at but 1/2 a foot would be very disappointing. when i look at the numbers on the other side of the pool it seems they either made the pool wider than i had asked for or they r going to cut into my grow space. i planned the pool very exact and i'm wondering how often they miss things like this and if so by how much. i know a guy who said he left the workers a cooler of beer and they made his pool 2 feet bigger. although i would appreciate the sentiment my proportions were exact for a reason. does it sound like everything's right on track or at what point do i need to start looking more closely to measurements? after steel? thanks!






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    old threads:

    attaching new question to an old thread.

    things to consider in equipment placement 4 my yard. which would u prefer as most important?:
    1. most people seem to keep equipment near the pool. i thought it was due to cost. one pb said it can help efficiency. i'm not going much further than 10 to 20 feet further if i put it on the side of the house. paramount (in-floor) said no prob
    2. i thought on the side of the house i wouldn't have to see the equipment and save space for everything i want to do in the backyard. i thought i'd hear the equipment close to the pool. one person told me u can't hear it behind a block wall. i feel like i've heard it behind folks block walls. can u hear it behind a block wall and if so, do u run your pump at night or in the day? i thought if i run it at night the kids won't break the infloor pop ups in the day when they're in the pool. someone said they can hear the pump through their block wall and it disturbs their sleep.
    3. would u prefer to save a 7 foot side of your house to store a trailer or have access to things in the future or hide away the pump from the backyard area where we'll be a lot of the time does the sound really disapate around the corner? will it be in the way if i have it on the 8 foot side of the house where we go daily to throw out trash?

    4. does the remote to the lights and stuff run only up to a certain distance and around a corner or is it like a tv where u have to point the remote at it with nothing in the way for it to pick up the signal? the side of the house where we don't have anything is 30-50 feet farther from the sitting area. doubt i'll be too concerned with this feature but it might be nice to not have to walk around that corner where we don't have lights as often if we might need to access the equipment each time we have to turn on the pool lights...

    Where do u prefer to have your pool equipment? how long do u run your pump? my plan is on this thread if that helps. thanku for any thoughts!!
    -------------------------


    attaching a new question to an old thread.
    i wanted to get 2 umbrella sleeves in our deck. one to keep closer to the water and one a few inches back. small deck but i'm hoping the two holes would account for the sun moving. the sitting area is in the worst spot as far as afternoon sun and we're in AZ. the pb said he can put in the sleeves but they recommend against it. maybe what he's saying is that it's not warrateed cuz of chances of problems? it was a quick convo and i need to verify but what i got from him is that there is too much chance for damaging the pavers, especially with our soft stone choice of marbella. does anyone here have umbrella sleeves in a soft stone or travertine deck and if so, what have u found to be true with it? thanku




    pool cad with retaining wall.jpgour major surrounding pool design has been disrupted by the new news that we have to put in a retainer wall. although it is short, just 5-6" high, it is still disruptive to what we had planned for planting, an arbor, garden walls... we now have to scramble to work around it and decide if we want them to move the wall in one direction. i'm heading to the nursery today to see what they say i can grow in such a small amount of space. for those who r in AZ and know something about plants, is there anything that you know that can be grown successfully 16" away from a pool in 12" grow space? we currently have the plan set to 8" grow space but will move it to 12", which allows for 24" grow space behind the wall. with such a low wall we r planning on having it done in the same block as the block wall around the house as we were hoping it would blend in. we r doing a rustic contemporary look, with a coping only pool and lots of plants surrounding the pool. we have some flexibility perhaps to move the pool more into the grass area, but i'd' probably only go 6" as by the time we install a fence, then our yard is more pool, less grass. i was going for more grass, less pool. thanks much to anyone who has any planting expertise. this last minute "little" thing has caused some major stress in trying to rework things and reconsider a new design along with get educated on plants that will grow in full sun by the pool in a small space. thx!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: retainer wall only leaves 8-12" grow space-PIC

    in case anyone is interested or has different ideas due to the retaining wall, the 13' corner is our little patio that will extend under the current arbor. we may extend the current arbor or cut it shorter to be outside of the fence that will wrap itself around the pool giving 2ft walking space on the short side and 2 1/2 or 3' walking space on the long side. the empty corner of the yard is for small fruit trees and a fort for the kids, while trying to leave it as open as possible to not make the yard cut in half. we were originally going to have a 2 post arbor on the backside of the long side of the pool while placing a couple of raised garden walls that the kids would decorate with mosaics, but with the current retainer wall I can't envision if that will still work. the current retainer wall will only stick out of the ground 5 or 6" so it might not change the design as much as I think, but plantings it will as we wanted some patterns of certain plants that we can't use in that amount of space.

    there is a tree almost in the middle of the open side of the yard which is where the chickens have some good space to roam.

    thanku!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: retainer wall only leaves 8-12" grow space-PIC

    Why not extend the deck to the wall and have a raised planting bed behind, or am I missing something?
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: retainer wall only leaves 8-12" grow space-PIC

    chiefwej, after a lot of trips to garden nurseries and research i am going to widen the 8" space on the width of the pool to 12" and plant some candelilla, horsetail reef, or lady slippers there, then there will be the retaining wall, then a fence immediately behind it. i am keeping the 8" growing space on the longer side where i will put aloes or some of the previously mentioned choices, still allowing for more than 2 feet growing space behing there. we r wanting to have a "lush" area (arizona style lush). salt water pool so we'll see how it goes.
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    cwescapexlt4x4's Avatar
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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    We have umbrella holes (one in deck one in the baja step) and had zero pushback from Presidential Pools
    Chris - aka cwescapexlt4x4
    (Build 8/26/14 - 10/17/14) in-ground Presidential Pools 15K gallon salt water pool Pentair Inteiliflo pump, Regal Blue Pebble, Clean & Clear filter, in-floor cleaning,
    LED light, 3' sheer spill, 2 benches, large Baja step. / Pergola by Booth Built 19W x 14D // Outdoor Kitchen, W/Primo grill and BBQ Coach kit for the island.

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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    cwescapexlt4x4, have u had the one in the deck long? how's it hold up? i just spoke with calpool and they said they can put them in but they recommend against them for 3 reasons: 1. they said most umbrellas ren't tall enough and by the time the pole falls a couple of feet into the ground you can't walk under it. 2. if a windstorm comes it could break the deck. 3. can't move it around as easily as with a stand. ive gotta say i can see a stand coming in handy as well, but a couple of sleeves as well.
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    I wouldn't hesitate to put sleeves in concrete, but I could see a good gust of wind cracking or tilting a paver out of position. What if you have another haboob wind?
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    cwescapexlt4x4's Avatar
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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    Honestly I would've told my builder to pound sand with the reasons (*cough* excuses) it sounds like they are giving. Could be they've had bad luck and yes the one at the deck IS lower but you can't miss seeing it really....

    Regarding the Haboobs/Monsoon - You normally know when a storm is coming and the smart move to NOT store them/leave them in the holes when you are done using the pool.
    Here are mine:


    Chris - aka cwescapexlt4x4
    (Build 8/26/14 - 10/17/14) in-ground Presidential Pools 15K gallon salt water pool Pentair Inteiliflo pump, Regal Blue Pebble, Clean & Clear filter, in-floor cleaning,
    LED light, 3' sheer spill, 2 benches, large Baja step. / Pergola by Booth Built 19W x 14D // Outdoor Kitchen, W/Primo grill and BBQ Coach kit for the island.

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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    I think I would tend to agree with the pool builder especially for reasons 1 and 3.

    Yes, it's obvious that the umbrella is in the deck, so you won't run into it if it's shorter, but it's kind of a pain for you and your guests to have to duck to get around the umbrella every time they pass by them.

    Also, you never know until AFTER the pool is done how you are going to use it. You may think you want an umbrella in a certain spot, but then you get to using your pool and realize you don't really need it there. A stand lets you put the umbrella wherever you want it. That's what we did and I just leave the bottom poles in the stands and remove the top part of the umbrella to store them when we are done. Makes it pretty quick for setting up again when we need them.
    Bryan
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    IG 16,148 gal (pool+spa), Mediterranean Pebble Plus, Noce Travertine Coping and Deck, Hayward ProLogic 8 with AquaPod, Hayward EcoStar VS Pump, Hayward 60 sqft DE filter, Hayward T15 SWCG, Paramount Clear O3 Ozone, Hayward 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    Our PB told us that he does not recommend putting them in the pool. We wanted a couple on our tanning ledge, and still may get them there but he suggested putting them in the deck near the pool because of the Oklahoma wind. He said that inevitably you will forget to take it down and the wind will cause it to shake and eventually cause a leak at the sleeve. I was curious about this as well and wondered what others thoughts are on it. wind. We were planning to do exactly like cwescapexlt4x4 with 2 umbrella sleeves on our tanning ledge but the PB has us second guessing that decision. Unlike cwescapexlt4x4’s backyard ours is wide open and the wind really does come whipping down the plains.
    My Pool Build Thread: 21 x 40 Freeform Gunite Pool, 12" Tanning Ledge, 3.5 shallow graduating to 4.5, 8.5 deep end, 4' Waterfall which doubles as a diving ledge with 6' x 4' Grotto underneath, 670 sq. ft., 106 Linear ft., Rock Salted Concrete Deck, Pentair 520 Filter, Intelli flow 3 HP VS pump, (4) Color LED lights, Intelli-Chlor SWG, Hot Springs Vanguard Hot Tub with ACE and BT Sound System, ODK, TF100

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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    My PB recommended against an umbrella hole in the POOL for the simple fact that you can't move the umbrella. They weren't concerned with anything else whatsoever with that, and had no problem doing it, it was just recommended we don't, because it's permanent placement.

    You can rotate/tilt the umbrella as the sun shifts, but not actually move them, which can be more advantageous. Also, as bacevedo mentions, you may find out the places you opted to put the hole(s) may not be where you really want to use them, which you can't really determine until you start use of the pool.

    On the flip side, without a hole, you now need a big ole base to keep a big umbrella from blowing over in general, which has it's own downsides.

    We didn't have a need for a hole in the deck (pavers) because we have 620sq ft of covered porch next to the pool. If we were to put a hole in the deck, we would have had to pour a small concrete footer for the hole. However, I never even considered a hole in the area of our deck that isn't covered. We didn't have any way to figure out ahead of time where we would want to place it, or if it would even get used, so we said we would just buy a freestanding umbrella if it came down to it.
    14k Gallon IG Gunite Pool | 13'x29' Rectangle with 13' x 4' Sun Shelf (shallow end)
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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    for those of you who mentioned not knowing where you would want to put the umbrella until u begin using the pool, if u knew mostly for sure where u'd want the umbrella and u had marbella pavers, would u put them in your patio? i think i know pretty well where the sun sets in the summer and our patio is ONLY 12 x 9 feet so considering saving walking space and not too close to the shower, i don't think we can go too wrong with placement.

    we were maybe going to extend our current arbor to cover the area but i'm starting to think an umbrella will leave for possibilities to leave the area more open and not feel closed in by a permanent structure if we want to sit there in the winter and such... it's somewhat a unique set-up with the fence and how it's set up, although it might not look that way by the plan above but the only "larger" spot on the inside of the fence is this one and there's not too much wiggle room for the umbrella as it is.

    my thought is that to do it later would be more costly and a pain but if i changed my mind later i could probably get rid of the hole easily enough? i might be mistaken on this? or fill in the hole, which wouldn't be the most attractive if just with a cover, another place for roaches and scorpians to hide. has anyone found this to be true? would anyone mind sending a close up of their sleeve? does it just have a plastic cap when not in use? thanku!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    cwescapexlt4x4's Avatar
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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    We got ours for free, they have screw in heavier plastic plugs that keep it sealed from other crud or toes from hitting the holes. We don't use them often and did keep (by luck) a heavy movable base as well.
    Chris - aka cwescapexlt4x4
    (Build 8/26/14 - 10/17/14) in-ground Presidential Pools 15K gallon salt water pool Pentair Inteiliflo pump, Regal Blue Pebble, Clean & Clear filter, in-floor cleaning,
    LED light, 3' sheer spill, 2 benches, large Baja step. / Pergola by Booth Built 19W x 14D // Outdoor Kitchen, W/Primo grill and BBQ Coach kit for the island.

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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    Chris, Can you post a picture of your plugs? What size are they?
    20x44 IG vinyl. Intelliflo, Pentair Cartridge Filter (420ft^2), Raypac 336K, Kreepy Krauly

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    cwescapexlt4x4's Avatar
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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    Sure, i'll take a couple photos tonight and they are "normal" size.. I can measure them if you'd like.
    Chris - aka cwescapexlt4x4
    (Build 8/26/14 - 10/17/14) in-ground Presidential Pools 15K gallon salt water pool Pentair Inteiliflo pump, Regal Blue Pebble, Clean & Clear filter, in-floor cleaning,
    LED light, 3' sheer spill, 2 benches, large Baja step. / Pergola by Booth Built 19W x 14D // Outdoor Kitchen, W/Primo grill and BBQ Coach kit for the island.

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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    Chris, yes a pic and measurements would be great! thx!!!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    ozdiver's Avatar
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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorsgal View Post
    cwescapexlt4x4, have u had the one in the deck long? how's it hold up? i just spoke with calpool and they said they can put them in but they recommend against them for 3 reasons: 1. they said most umbrellas ren't tall enough and by the time the pole falls a couple of feet into the ground you can't walk under it. 2. if a windstorm comes it could break the deck. 3. can't move it around as easily as with a stand. ive gotta say i can see a stand coming in handy as well, but a couple of sleeves as well.
    We have 5 sleeves in our travertine deck (2 can be used for volleyball net) and one in sunshelf.

    1. The sleeves they set in deck do shorten umbrella but only by 8-10". Still fine for sitting under in chairs but not so much for a table. With a table you would use a base anyway as it is un-intrusive.
    2. We have travertine and the method they used involves a hole in tile(obviously) but also setting the sleeve in concrete under the tile. (Free standing umbrellas in general are more sensitive to wind as they are not being braced up at table height as well as at ground height.)
    3. True, but they can be moved or removed in paver/travertine deck. Pop a few tiles pull the whole thing out and discard the concrete & sleeve. Repeat install with new sleev and concrete in new location.

    That was my logic when dealing with this question. We'll see how it plays out over the years.
    40k gal freeform, IG pebblesheen, 9'x'6' raised spa, 2-1/2 hp Whisperflo, 520 sq/ft cartridge, Legend w/ booster, Intellibrite 5g in pool @ spa, Rainbow 320 Chlorinator(retired),
    Mastertemp 400k BTU, 3x3 hp Whisperflo Swimjets, 2x2 hp Whisperflow for 15ton moss rock waterfall, Intelitouch Controller, 850 sq/ft Travertine deck, Gas/Wood firepit,
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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    I'm putting in three umbrella holes. Two in the Baja shelf and one on the large steps into the pool. We want the option of shade, it gets hot in southern California. We will not leave our umbrellas in when not in use. Our pool builder did not have any concerns about umbrella holes? They have covers that go over them when not in use. We did not put any holes in our travertine deck, we have two large umbrellas with heavy bases that we can move around.

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    ozdiver's Avatar
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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    FYI, Umbrellas over 9' dia usually have poles too big for regular deck sleeves.
    40k gal freeform, IG pebblesheen, 9'x'6' raised spa, 2-1/2 hp Whisperflo, 520 sq/ft cartridge, Legend w/ booster, Intellibrite 5g in pool @ spa, Rainbow 320 Chlorinator(retired),
    Mastertemp 400k BTU, 3x3 hp Whisperflo Swimjets, 2x2 hp Whisperflow for 15ton moss rock waterfall, Intelitouch Controller, 850 sq/ft Travertine deck, Gas/Wood firepit,
    Autofill, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: pb recommeds AGAINST umbrella sleeves in deck

    Lady slippers would be nice. Candelilla is kinda scraggly, I think, as is the horsetail...your house though!

    Is it a solid block wall behind it? If so you might consider some vines, which would really green up the place and cut down on the heat/glare from the wall. Vine options would depend on the orientation of the wall...does it face south, east, north?
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
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