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Thread: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

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    Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    I will apologize upfront, I have read and reread, did the pool calculator and followed the instructions on the Taylor-2006 on youtube,I reran each test in case I screwed it up. I have trouble understanding and reading because of Lyme disease, but I want to get the pool right. I am confused.
    I have a 24 x 54 round metal pool with vinyl liner. The pool sits in direct sunlight all day. I have a solar cover but have never used it. I have a sand filter with 2 year old sand.

    My current number are

    FC -0
    CC- .04 ppm (2 drops x .02
    PH - 7.5
    TA-170 ppm
    TH - 300 ppm
    CYA -black dot did not vanish so my understanding is that it would be less than 20 pp.

    We had a bad algae problem last year so we have purchased a SWG, added the salt but I can't get the chlorine to hold at any consistent level. If I read correctly it is because I have no CYA?? I have 24 lbs of 65% bagged chlorine, a box of borax, a box of baking soda all on hand.

    Do I need to go buy stabilizer? I am guessing that is from a pool store.

    If anyone has any advice at all, I would greatly appreciate it. Sorry about this, I really did try to understand. Obviously I need a chemistry class


    Thanks

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    1. Use 10ml water sample for the FAS-DPD test so each drop is 0.5ppm. This will save your reagent. Also note that for 25ml, the multiplier is 0.2, not 0.02 like you wrote.
    2. Forget about the SWG until you get the pool balanced. BTW, a SWG will not prevent algae if you neglect the pool and are not testing often.
    3. What is the ingredient in the bagged chlorine you have?
    4. You need to raise the CYA up to about 30ppm and then I would follow the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process to ensure the water is clean before dialing in the SWG. You can get the stabilizer for hardware stores and Walmart in the pool section.
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    Welcome to TFP!!

    Jason has given great advice.

    To be honest I don't go to a pool store for anything anymore. WalMart has just about everything you will need. I only go to Lowes for acid.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    Wow, that was so fast and very helpful.

    The chlorine I purchased was (68% Calcium Hypochlorite)

    I turned off the SWG last night when I first tested the water and had 0 FC, it is still attached but not turned on.

    Thank you for getting back with me, I know you probably get sick of repeating yourselves but I was totally confused.

    I will add the stabilizer and when it is 30 ppm, I will start the SLAM process.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5dogs7cats View Post
    I will add the stabilizer and when it is 30 ppm, I will start the SLAM process.
    No need to wait. It can take stabilizer up to a week to show up on tests. Pour the stabilizer (use Pool Math to figure out how much) in an old sock and hang it in front of a return. Then assume the CYA is there for calculations and SLAM the pool immediately.

    Lot's of Ohio folks showing up today...
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    No, go ahead and put the stabilizer in and then start the SLAM with numbers based on the 30 CYA you've got dissolving in the pool.
    Put your stabilizer in a sock and hang it in front of a return so the water turbulence will help it dissolve faster. Squeeze the sock now and then to speed things up too-you'll get a milky looking water out of it but it won't hurt you to touch it.
    See if you can return the Calcium Hypochlorite as a vinyl pool doesn't really need calcium, but if you can't, you can use it. Its just not as cheap as bleach I imagine?
    Good Luck!
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    After you get your SLAM started, here is your chemistry class.

    TFPC for Beginners
    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry

    Here is the Water Balance for SWCGs.

    Use the Recommended Pool Chemicals to maintain your pool.

    And use PoolMath to figure out how much to add the reach the targets.
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    I got the stabilizer in the socks in front of the return. I am going to start the SLAM and I am wondering if I would be better to wait until tonight. We are going to be in the high 80's today and the pool gets 100% sun all day.
    I am home all day so I can add chlorine all day, that's not a problem, but I don't want to throw money down the drain, but I am anxious to get it done we are going to be in the 80's until Monday so I can actually use the pool. (unheard of in Ohio in May)
    I saw today that the algae is back on the floor and walls so I want to get in and scrub it today, will that hurt the process?
    Thank you.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    The sooner you start the faster the process will be completed.
    Brushing is specifically mentioned as required in the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process.
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    I'm sorry, I knew I had to brush, I just meant will me getting in the pool hurt anything?
    Thank you for your help.

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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    Other than you being cold it should not hurt anything.
    Lisa
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azgirl71 View Post
    Other than you being cold it should not hurt anything.
    I believe the conventional wisdom is to not be physically in the pool when you are up at SLAM levels. At least we say it's not safe to swim unless you're below SLAM levels, so...
    17.4k gallon IG pool with attached spa (spa itself is 730gal), Super Blue Diamondbrite plaster, Circupool SI-45+ SWG, BH/Hayward Cartridge Filter, 2hp 2speed Hayward Super II pump, , Jandy Valves, Waterway Skimmers, Rheem 400k Heater, Polaris 360 cleaner, built 2000+-, replastered June 2015, TF-100 kit---Here's my pool test reading history

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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    Jason, do you suspect ammonia on this one as well?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fungi View Post
    Jason, do you suspect ammonia on this one as well?
    Not yet since we have not seen any test results or updates.
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilbee View Post
    I believe the conventional wisdom is to not be physically in the pool when you are up at SLAM levels. At least we say it's not safe to swim unless you're below SLAM levels, so...
    I took it as he wanted to know if it would affect the SLAM process
    Lisa
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    There are no problems being in the pool briefly even with FC well above shock level. Still likely less harsh than going to the YMCA
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Please help, I have 0 FC and 0 CYA totally lost.

    I noticed you reported a Total Hardness figure of 300, which is a closely related parameter to Calcium Hardness. The K-2006 kit has a Calcium Hardness test and we usually report its results using the CH designation. If you're CH value is in fact 300, then you do not want to use those bags of Calcium Hypochlorite, as they will quickly drive your CH above 350 which is the recommended max. As someone else suggested, better to try to return them, or save them for when you drain your pool and need to increase your CH value because of new, soft water.

    By the way this site teaches that vinyl pools only need 50ppm of CH. The 250-350 recommendation you'll often see, is for plaster pools. Having that amount in a vinyl pool isn't harmful, it's just unnecessary, and puts you closer to conditions that can cause Calcium scaling, which would be bad.
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