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Thread: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

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    New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Well, after lurking around here trying to soak up as much information as I can since 2012, I finally decided to register.

    My pool was built more than 20 years ago (best guess, based on who owned the house when the pool was built), and, according to the folks I bought my house from, was trouble-free for them.

    Since moving in, I have dealt with all the common types of algae with either BioGuard BackUp or AlgaeKill II (prefer the AKII, but would rather not have to use it at all...). Last summer, I finally got into the habit of taking a water sample in to the local pool store every Saturday morning to let their computer tell me what chemical adjustments to make. That still didn't keep me from dealing with algae from time to time...

    My Problem:

    After having the pool opened this year (Thursday, April 30), I noticed the water was very cloudy (couldn't see my main drain in the deep end) and was a beautiful shade of teal green. Ugh.

    I added the little bit of AKII I had remaining from last year (about 6 oz., IIRC). It had apparently gelled during the winter, so I got some liquid out while about 1 oz. remained in the bottle. I then saw the quart of BackUp the pool company had left for me and decided to add that, since I didn't know whether the AKII was still any good. I know, this was not the best idea. But it gets worse.

    When I went into the pool store to pick up more Basic Tabs, AKII and SmartShock, they advised me they had already added a quart of BackUp at the time they opened the pool. So, I got home to very foamy water.

    What I've Done So Far:

    I have continued to add Basic Tabs to my skimmers (no auto chlorinator is installed), but have not taken a sample in to be tested. The advice was, "We're going to be getting a ton of rain in the next week, there's no sense in getting everything balanced now, only to have to start all over after the rain."

    We got anywhere from 2-4" of rain yesterday, so I put 3 pounds of SmartShock in before I left for work this morning. It foamed up immediately upon mixing with the pool water.

    I've already ordered a TF-100 Test Kit and am going to take matters into my own hands this year (no doubt with lots of help from y'all...), hopefully with better results.

    I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do next. I know I'm flying blind by not having test results. I also know I have WAY too much algaecide in my pool. And I now have green blotches appearing in the bottom of the shallow end, though I have no idea if that is algae or copper from the algaecide...
    25,000 gallon freeform gunnite/plaster, built in the 1970s/80s; Sta-Rite 9463004 575-lb. sand filter; Sta-Rite DuraGlas/Max-E-Glas (P2RA5F-125L) single-speed 1.5 HP pump, manufactured 12/1993 (1M93M).
    Helpful links: TFTestKits; Pool School; ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry; Chlorine/CYA Chart; PoolMath; SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Welcome to TFP! Congrats on wanting to maintain your own pool and ordering a TF100.

    These articles will get you started.
    TFPC for Beginners
    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry

    Here are the Recommended Levels for your pool.
    These are the Recommended Pool Chemicals to maintain your pool.
    Use PoolMath to figure out how much to add.

    With green cloudy water you will need to SLAM Your Pool
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    jrs_diesel's Avatar
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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Welcome to TFP!

    Don't use the AlgaeKill II (Copper Ethanolamine Complex) anymore, that one is a copper based formula, and you don't want green hair or green stains in the pool.

    The SmartShock is dichlor (with copper added as well) and with you using trichlor tablets (both of which add CYA). I imagine that your CYA is very high, rendering what chlorine is in the water useless. Once you get a full set of test results from your TF-100, we'll be able to give you better guidance and enable you to take control of your pool. If your CYA is really high, best course of action is to do a partial water replacement, how much water depends on your CYA level. That part sucks, but you'll get your CYA to a manageable level, and some of the copper out as well. My CYA was 140 when we moved into our new house last year, and I had to do a partial drain and fill (14,000 gallons). That month's water bill sucked ($200), but the pool is in great shape and my family is very happy with it. Plus, I've only had to use three chemicals since then as well (liquid chlorine, muriatic acid for ph control, and baking soda to raise TA when needed).

    It doesn't take long to understand the chemistry, and once you grasp that, you will know WHY you are adding a chemical to your water. That's the big part of Trouble Free Pool, understanding what the chemicals are, what effects they have on the water, and only adding what the pool needs to stay balanced. Knowledge is good!
    J.R.

    20K IG gunnite pool
    2HP Hayward single speed pump
    Cartridge filter

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Quote Originally Posted by COBrien View Post
    I've already ordered a TF-100 Test Kit and am going to take matters into my own hands this year (no doubt with lots of help from y'all...), hopefully with better results.

    I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do next. I know I'm flying blind by not having test results. I also know I have WAY too much algaecide in my pool. And I now have green blotches appearing in the bottom of the shallow end, though I have no idea if that is algae or copper from the algaecide...
    Well, you are ahead of the game in that you understand you have a problem and that taking control is the way to fix it. The TF100 will be a great addition.

    As jrs_diesel pointed out, you really should stop using the copper algecide and the solid chlorine products. It's already green and you won't be able to really fix the problem until you get the test kit and identify the problem.

    pooldv has given you your reading list for the next couple of days. Read and ask questions.

    My gut tells me you will be replacing part of your pool water. Any problems with that?

    Oh, and Welcome to TFP!!
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    DaninFLA's Avatar
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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Quote Originally Posted by jrs_diesel View Post
    My CYA was 140 when we moved into our new house last year, and I had to do a partial drain and fill (14,000 gallons). That month's water bill sucked ($200),
    did you call your water supply company and tell them you filled the pool? roughly 2/3 of your water bill is for sewer, if you explain it was only for refill they will usually deduct the sewer portion from your bill. this goes for the OP as well.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Welcome. Read the links provided to you as they are going to be the foundation of knowledge from here on out on how to care for your pool.

    Stop adding stuff to the pool until you get the test kit. If you want to do anything useful from now until then, go clear Wal-Mart out of unscented bleach. That's all your going to need for right now until we get test results.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Thanks for all the links, input and advice, folks!

    jrs_diesel: What are the effects of "overdosing" on the BackUp? Will it eventually dissipate? Will it stain like the AKII?

    tim5055: Should I stop adding any chemicals whatsoever until my TF-100 arrives? I mean, I guess it's not really going to hurt anything, as the procedure will still be the same regardless of how green it is... Also, as far as replacing water is concerned, I had pretty well figured that would be a part of the solution. While I hate to pay for that much city water, I do have a separate meter and frost-free hydrant for my in-ground sprinkler system (only charged for water, no sewage/trash fees) and we're currently not under any drought restrictions.

    I just got my UPS tracking number from TFTestKits -- scheduled delivery is end-of-day on 05/11. Will begin stocking up on liquid bleach after work today...
    25,000 gallon freeform gunnite/plaster, built in the 1970s/80s; Sta-Rite 9463004 575-lb. sand filter; Sta-Rite DuraGlas/Max-E-Glas (P2RA5F-125L) single-speed 1.5 HP pump, manufactured 12/1993 (1M93M).
    Helpful links: TFTestKits; Pool School; ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry; Chlorine/CYA Chart; PoolMath; SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Quote Originally Posted by DaninFLA View Post
    did you call your water supply company and tell them you filled the pool? roughly 2/3 of your water bill is for sewer, if you explain it was only for refill they will usually deduct the sewer portion from your bill. this goes for the OP as well.
    Unfortunately, our water rates are set by city ordinance and there is no provision for pool fills

    Never hurts to ask your utility if they have a lower rate for pool filling.
    J.R.

    20K IG gunnite pool
    2HP Hayward single speed pump
    Cartridge filter

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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Quote Originally Posted by COBrien View Post
    Thanks for all the links, input and advice, folks!

    jrs_diesel: What are the effects of "overdosing" on the BackUp? Will it eventually dissipate? Will it stain like the AKII?

    tim5055: Should I stop adding any chemicals whatsoever until my TF-100 arrives? I mean, I guess it's not really going to hurt anything, as the procedure will still be the same regardless of how green it is... Also, as far as replacing water is concerned, I had pretty well figured that would be a part of the solution. While I hate to pay for that much city water, I do have a separate meter and frost-free hydrant for my in-ground sprinkler system (only charged for water, no sewage/trash fees) and we're currently not under any drought restrictions.

    I just got my UPS tracking number from TFTestKits -- scheduled delivery is end-of-day on 05/11. Will begin stocking up on liquid bleach after work today...
    The active ingredient in the Bioguard Backup is alkyl dimethylbenzylammonium chloride. Nothing truly harmful there except that it can cause foaming and doesn't last as long as other algaecides. See this post from Chem Geek for more info:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...l=1#post144796

    As far as algaecides go, TFP methods don't usually reccomend them, but there is one that can be useful as an algae preventer, and that is polyquat. But you should not need that at all. Polyquat is more expensive and chlorine kills off algae more readily.

    I would not add anything else at this point, trichlor is adding CYA, your dichlor is adding CYA and copper, and both of them lower Ph as well. Stocking up on the bleach is a good idea since it looks like you'll be doing a SLAM (Shock Level and Maintain) soon. Just saw where you had a seperate irrigation meter for your house. I would use that water for pool filling.
    J.R.

    20K IG gunnite pool
    2HP Hayward single speed pump
    Cartridge filter

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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Quote Originally Posted by jrs_diesel View Post
    Unfortunately, our water rates are set by city ordinance and there is no provision for pool fills

    Never hurts to ask your utility if they have a lower rate for pool filling.
    mine didn't have a provision for pool refills, however I was able to explain that we filled the xx gallon pool with water and that it was not water that was discharged to the sewer system. they went back and compared the single month to other month averages and deducted xx gallons for the sewer rate. Still had to pay full price for the water...but like I said typically you are charged about double for sewer than the water rate. I have also been successful getting a credit/discount on another occasion when I accidently left my hose running and flooded my back yard. same thing, they looked at my average use and deducted out the sewer.

    your not going to pay any less for the water itself.

    its worth a shot.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Okay, my TFTest kit came in this afternoon. I'm pretty sure I did everything correctly, and this is what I came up with:

    FC: 1
    CC: 1
    TC: 2
    CH: 500
    TA: 220
    CYA: 40? (CYA tube leaks out of the box, did the best I could with what I had)
    pH: 7.8

    And, just so y'all know what we're looking at:


    ^ Like a St. Patty's Day beer...


    ^ The water looks teal green in the pic, but it's more of an emerald green in person.


    ^ This has started settling/growing since I removed the chlorine tabs. Hitting it with a brush causes it to just blow off.

    Also, I know the O-ring on my pump skimmer basket is compromised. Hence the nice little bubbles coming from the returns. This, I'm sure, isn't helping the algaecide foam, either.
    25,000 gallon freeform gunnite/plaster, built in the 1970s/80s; Sta-Rite 9463004 575-lb. sand filter; Sta-Rite DuraGlas/Max-E-Glas (P2RA5F-125L) single-speed 1.5 HP pump, manufactured 12/1993 (1M93M).
    Helpful links: TFTestKits; Pool School; ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry; Chlorine/CYA Chart; PoolMath; SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Was the cya test tube cracked? Contact them and I'm sure they'll make it right.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    I think there's a problem with the seal/seam between the side of the tube and the bottom. I e-mailed them, but haven't heard anything back yet.

    This may be a dumb question, but what do I do now? I know I'm going to be replacing about half of my water in order to get CH down between 250 and 350. Is that where I should start?
    25,000 gallon freeform gunnite/plaster, built in the 1970s/80s; Sta-Rite 9463004 575-lb. sand filter; Sta-Rite DuraGlas/Max-E-Glas (P2RA5F-125L) single-speed 1.5 HP pump, manufactured 12/1993 (1M93M).
    Helpful links: TFTestKits; Pool School; ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry; Chlorine/CYA Chart; PoolMath; SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Just for a baseline go ahead and test your sprinkler system water for CH. Your pool is plaster so the calcium is important to keep in line whenever you can, either with replacement water or keeping your pH down at the low end of normal. That will help you avoid scaling.

    Yippee
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Agree, test your fill water. People here manage their water with a lot higher CH than that. Next step after we decide about CH is SLAMing Your Pool
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Okay, here goes:

    Tested fill water, CH is 250.

    Vacuumed to waste in preparation for SLAMing. The stuff collected on the bottom of the pool sucked up like sediment, so that must be what it was...

    Tested water in preparation for SLAMing:

    FC: 1.0
    CC: 1.5 (?)
    TC: 2.5 (?)
    CH: 600
    TA: 150
    CYA: 20
    pH: 7.8-8.2 (fell between the two shades on the comparator)

    I'm not sure on my CC/TC numbers. I haven't added anything to the water since I removed my chlorine tabs, so I don't know how the CC could have increased. I'm chalking it up to user error...

    Next step now is to lower my pH down to between 7.2-7.5?

    As a humorous aside: It's an interesting feeling walking through Wal-Mart with 12 jugs of bleach and some strawberries in your cart. Everyone looks at you strange and lets you ahead of them in line...
    25,000 gallon freeform gunnite/plaster, built in the 1970s/80s; Sta-Rite 9463004 575-lb. sand filter; Sta-Rite DuraGlas/Max-E-Glas (P2RA5F-125L) single-speed 1.5 HP pump, manufactured 12/1993 (1M93M).
    Helpful links: TFTestKits; Pool School; ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry; Chlorine/CYA Chart; PoolMath; SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Quote Originally Posted by COBrien View Post
    As a humorous aside: It's an interesting feeling walking through Wal-Mart with 12 jugs of bleach and some strawberries in your cart. Everyone looks at you strange and lets you ahead of them in line...
    lol, yeah all that bleach to clean up the body....and some berries to enojoy at the "dead-spread" later!
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Yes, lower your ph.

    That is pretty high CH in your fill water. There are some people here who have to manage high CH watee, hopefully they can help out. I don't have any experience with it.

    So, is your plan to drain some water and then SLAM Your Pool?

    Read up one more time and go for it.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Hey, just read this thread discussing high CH that might be helpful.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...iner-need-help
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: New to Forum, But Not to Pool Problems...

    Thanks for the link, pooldv. I went ahead and started the SLAM procedure today, figuring it would be difficult to start on a weekday. My honey-do list kept me from starting until after 4:00 today, though...

    I went and picked up some HTH pH Minus at Walmart (options are somewhat limited at 6:00 p.m. on Sunday...). Added approx. 30 oz. (by volume), waited not quite 2 hours, and re-tested. pH showed to be slightly less than 7.8. Added an additional ~30 oz., waited 2 more hours, and re-tested. pH showed to be slightly less than 7.5.

    PoolMath calculated 339 oz. of 8.25% bleach. I added 3 jugs (121 oz. each) of bleach. This was at about 10:30 p.m. I will check chlorine levels in the morning and add what's needed before work. Unfortunately, I probably won't have an opportunity to come home before 5:00 p.m., which I hope doesn't cause a problem, since my CYA is showing to be 20...
    25,000 gallon freeform gunnite/plaster, built in the 1970s/80s; Sta-Rite 9463004 575-lb. sand filter; Sta-Rite DuraGlas/Max-E-Glas (P2RA5F-125L) single-speed 1.5 HP pump, manufactured 12/1993 (1M93M).
    Helpful links: TFTestKits; Pool School; ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry; Chlorine/CYA Chart; PoolMath; SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

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