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Thread: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not prime

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    tenndoc's Avatar
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    Question New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not prime

    Swapped out our old single speed pump for a new Hayward max-flo VS we got through Amazon. I've been wanting to get a variable speed pump, so was happy to upgrade.

    I installed the whole thing. Did the pvc piping on my own with purple primer and cement on each non-threaded joint. Turned it on, and cannot get it to prime more than a very small flow.

    We've confirmed the flow from the pool to the pump is free with a hose, could feel water flowing through. We next re-cemented each joint working from the skimmers to the pump. At the pump we've added plumbers tape to all threaded connections, used magic lube on all gaskets, basket lid, both plugs on the pump as well as the plug on the sand filter. When we had the 4 way valve off to change the sand we used the magic lube again on the gasket on the 4 way valve as well.

    We are truly at a loss here. Common sense dictates there has to be an air leak SOMEWHERE in the system. All lines are new and clear. The pump will move SOME water but not enough to even backwash the sand filter. We have a Tagelus T60 sand filter. What happens if the 4 way valve malfunctions? I am grasping at straws I know.

    Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

    Thanks -

    doc
    tenndoc
    44,000 gal IG, Hayward maxflo vs, tagelus t60 sand filter, Taylor test kit, diy solar panels for heating pool water, full size solar blanket to keep the heat we get and of course -
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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Are you using 3000 RPM to prime?

    How high is the pump relative to the pool water?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Hey Mark -

    Yes, priming runs for about 7 minutes at 3000 rpm. I haven't done any programming on the pump as yet.

    The pump is about 1.5' about the water level.

    Out of frustration I just put the old pump back on and its pumping water through the filter! Is there something about the maxflo I need to do differently?

    Thanks for your interest Mark -
    tenndoc
    44,000 gal IG, Hayward maxflo vs, tagelus t60 sand filter, Taylor test kit, diy solar panels for heating pool water, full size solar blanket to keep the heat we get and of course -
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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    No, there should not be any difference. Have you checked the impeller inlet for an obstruction?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Yes sir.

    When I first put a wrench to the housing bolts they were looser than I would have thought they should be so I tightened everything but got the same result.

    I then took the pump apart to check the impeller, thinking that maybe it was obstructed or loose or perhaps they had left out an o-ring or something. Everything looked in order though and after putting it all back together I had the same, no flow, result.

    Unless someone has any ideas I guess I'll get in touch with hayward and see what they have to say.

    Thanks again -
    tenndoc
    44,000 gal IG, Hayward maxflo vs, tagelus t60 sand filter, Taylor test kit, diy solar panels for heating pool water, full size solar blanket to keep the heat we get and of course -
    'More fun than you can shake a stick at'

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    What i've done when I can't get my pump to prime is shut off the outlets back to the pool so the pump will build pressure. As the pressure starts to come up and the water fills, I open up the outlets.
    8000 gal diamond brite pool with 650 gal spillover spa, Pentair 3hp VS pump. Jandy Cartridge filter and Jandy Heat Pump. Jandy PDA automation system with 2 Pentair Laminars. SmartPool NC74S Robotic Pool Cleaner.

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Section 6.5 in the manual states after plumbing and wiring are complete, the variable speed drive must be configured prior to use. Section 6.6 explains how to configure. Did you fill the pump up with water as it states on the lid of the pump ? Also according to the manual, prime mode timer can be adjusted from 4 minutes to 0.00 minutes. How are you getting 7 minutes of prime mode ?? Just some suggestions here.
    20X36 IG vinyl (18,000 gal), 3 sheer descents, Max-Flo 1.5hp VS 2300, Aquarite T15 SWG, C3030 filter, 250,000 BTU heater, Sharkvac XL (Hayward equip)

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    If the old pump primed and pushed water through the filter properly when you put it back in the new plumbing that pretty much narrows it down to the new pump and not your plumbing skills.
    I'd give Hayward a call and see if they have an authorized agent in your area who can take a look at it. Might be something an "expert" would spot right away.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Thanks guys for the suggests -

    Robl45 - we tried shutting off the return line but could only get 5 - 7 psi. The system should run around 20 / 25 psi. We were unable to get any more pressure in the line which leads me to continue to believe there is a leak Somewhere.

    Donny - out of the box the maxflo defaulted to the previously mentioned settings. The readout shows 3000 rpms and it sounds like it is actually spinning that fast. After the timer counts down to 000, the rpm slows to 1500. Again, by the sound of things (or really by how quiet it gets) it probably is showing the correct speed.
    We primed the pump as directed multiple times with the same result. When first starting the prime cycle we can feel suction and see evidence of the pump drawing water from the pool. That only lasts for a brief second or two. After that, nothing. Which again leads me to believe there is an air leak Somewhere! I'm just at a loss on where it could be since we have lubed, repaired and / or replaced everything as methodically as we can.
    That's why I'm pestering you guys!
    Logic would seem to dictate that if it was drawing air at a joint in our new lines there would be some evidence of a leak when everything sat idle with no water moving but the Ines are full of water. That thought leads me back to a pressure side leak somewhere between the pump and filter, inclusive of both.
    Even though the old pump will move water where the new one wouldn't, it isn't showing the system pressure it did last year. The maxflo vs is probably working as it should.
    Has anyone had any experience with a failure of the valve on top of the sand filter? What happens if the springs get too weak or something else in the malfunctions?
    Yes, I am grasping at straws here.
    BTW, thanks for your time and assistance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks Kiss4afrog. I'm just about to that point.

    Appreciate your interest.
    tenndoc
    44,000 gal IG, Hayward maxflo vs, tagelus t60 sand filter, Taylor test kit, diy solar panels for heating pool water, full size solar blanket to keep the heat we get and of course -
    'More fun than you can shake a stick at'

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Have you checked the pump drain plugs to make sure they have a gasket on them so they seal properly?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    There are 3 plugs, two on the pump & 1 on the filter. All have new gaskets with lube. I replaced the top of the 6 way valve this morning and still the system acts as though there is n air Lek somewhere.
    I've just about scratehed out what little hair was left on my head.
    tenndoc
    44,000 gal IG, Hayward maxflo vs, tagelus t60 sand filter, Taylor test kit, diy solar panels for heating pool water, full size solar blanket to keep the heat we get and of course -
    'More fun than you can shake a stick at'

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    I just went through this same thing when I did the upgrade a few weeks ago. What I diid was plug off the skimmer intake. Then took the union off of my filter. Filled up the pump and suction pipe through the pump lid. Put that on and filled up the return line from the pump to filter and reconnected that. Then in a series of screaming " pump on pull plug!"my wife and i got it to prime. Had to do it twice but we got it to prime.
    great upgrade to do. The only disappointment I have is a large bubble in pump lid when on low speed. I worked on the getting rid of bubble but through searches here it seems that some vsp do this and others not.
    good luck
    14500 gallon, 24' round vinyl agp buried, pentair tagelus 60 sand filter, max-flo vs sp2302vsp, TF-100 testkit

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    rig2, with a AGP, priming should not have been an issue for you since you should have a flooded suction or are you placing the pump above the water level? How deep is the pool buried?

    tenndoc, do you have a valve in front of the pump that you can shut off and fully fill the pump basket with water? You are at least filling the pump basket until water drains out correct?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    I know it's driving you nuts but you mentioned a possible pressure side leak ... Maybe I'm crazy but if you have any kind of leak on the pressure side it might allow the system to drain down at shut off so it would be difficult to prime at next start up but once it primed the pump should work perfectly and unless it's a really big leak the pump should be pushing water at good pressure and volume back into the pool.

    If you can swap the old pump in and it primes, even if a bit difficult but pushes water through the equipment and back into the pools returns with what feels like normal volume and pressure I'm still thinking bad new pump.

    Unless the readout on the new pump is bad and it's not spinning 3000 but 300 or something low and that's why it's not able to prime itself.
    Just taking my best guesses trying to save those last few hairs
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Doc,

    I may be way off base here, but you said "The system should run around 20 / 25 psi." I just want to make sure that you are not assuming that just because you have low pressure that the pump is not priming. I believe that a VS pump running at 1500 rpm will have a lot less filter pressure than 20/25 psi. Are you really sure you have a priming issue?

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Mas985, our yard is funky to where it is low and the roads around us are three feet higher than us so everyone can see into our yard. So we buried the pool 3.5 fet so when we are swimming the street walkers can't see us.
    I call it an above ground pool with an in ground feel. Not the best idea ever with all the problems we have have had but with this site and the search function most if not all my problems have been resolved. Thank you for all your research and info on pumps it helped me a ton when I was looking at new pump.
    I basically had his same problem with the pump since all my pump and hardware is of in ground style.
    14500 gallon, 24' round vinyl agp buried, pentair tagelus 60 sand filter, max-flo vs sp2302vsp, TF-100 testkit

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Ladies & gentlemen
    Hobos & tramps,
    Cross-eyed mosquitoes and bowlegged ants.
    I come before you, half way behind you
    To tell you story I now know something about!

    Sorry for the elementary school rhyme but we have finally found the air leak!
    The spider gasket on the 6 way valve was leaking as well as the spring connected to the handle was weak. Plus, I accidentally nicked the pressure side line that we use to vacuum the pool. This nick didn't leak water but I'm certain that was soon to come.
    I'll reinstall the maxflo vs in the morning and feel confident it'll work as advertised.
    Thanks everyone for your interest and advice. It is greatly appreciated!
    tenndoc
    44,000 gal IG, Hayward maxflo vs, tagelus t60 sand filter, Taylor test kit, diy solar panels for heating pool water, full size solar blanket to keep the heat we get and of course -
    'More fun than you can shake a stick at'

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Well, Doc, did it work?

    I'm puzzled why your repair on the pressure side of the pump fixed your no prime issue on the suction side of the pump. Kind of like checking for a tonsil problem, but looking from the other end

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Hey Jim -
    We also repaired some older plumbing on the line we use to vacuum the pool.

    Trying to up date these post using my phone while working through everything I have obviously left a few steps out! Sorry for the confusion. This has been a real head scratcher!

    After reinstalling the old pump the system would prime but still had air when there shouldn't have been any. I reasoned that the skimmer lines were good because we had replaced them and I was confident all connections had gone together well. After reading about the spider gasket we found ours to be bad along with the spring on the handle. While purchasing the parts I also bought a new clamp to hold the 6way on to the top of the sand filter. I wasn't satisfied with the old metal clamp due to bad threads on the bolt so the clamp was replaced as well. The new clamp, I believe, provided for a better seal between the two surfaces. Still that is pressure side, not suction as you pointed out.

    The line we use to vacuum the pool became suspect when I took apart the connection at the shut off valve and found part of the gasket trapped in the valve preventing it from closing completely. With that repaired, I was able to isolate the skimmer lines to finally determain they were drawing and able to hold good, steady pressure. It was then obvious that there was a leak in the older vacuum line. It was easier at this point to simply route a new line with the new skimmer lines. With all that done we now have a pool working the way it was designed.
    As a side note, we went from opening conditions that resembled the wooly swamp, complete with frogs to a condition of having almost all algie gone today. Wish I had thought to take pictures.
    tenndoc
    44,000 gal IG, Hayward maxflo vs, tagelus t60 sand filter, Taylor test kit, diy solar panels for heating pool water, full size solar blanket to keep the heat we get and of course -
    'More fun than you can shake a stick at'

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: New Hayward max-flo vs installed with new plumbing from pump to pool, will not pr

    Doc,

    Thanks for the update.. Really glad you got it working.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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