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Thread: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

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    beachinmoney's Avatar
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    Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    Hi all. I have a Hayward Northstar SP4010N with a SP1610Z1 motor. I want to get a 2 speed motor and I have done a lot of research. I have in ground AA cleaning in my pool that is important for anyone to know. In calling around I got this quote, " I currently have a 2-speed pump with a toggle switch that will be a good replacement pump for the north star. This is a rebuilt 2-speed motor on a refurbished Pentair whisperflo pump. This will be a good upgrade to what you have now. The total cost with installation $425. Two year warranty." and this, "I wont be able to get you a northstar 1HP 2 speed motor, that motor is not available in a 2 speed. I can get you a brand new 1.5 HP mounted on a refurbished whisperflo pump, this is the best option that I can think of. This will accomplished eliminating your out dated pump and you will get an updated pump with new motor. Two year warranty, total price with installation $450."

    My question is, do I need to have a Whisperflo at that much money? Why can't I just find someone to do the motor alone with install and a toggle switch. Wouldn't it seem that would be more cost effective?

    Please advise and if you know anyone in AZ to recommend I would appreciate it as well.

    I am adding the picture of the pump he is talking about. I emailed him back and asked for the model and service factor etc. but no answer as of yet.Attachment 35778
    Last edited by beachinmoney; 04-29-2015 at 04:06 AM. Reason: Added picture
    Beachinmoney, live in AZ, Pool is inground approx. 14,500 gallons of water. I have a Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST pump. The pool was built in 2006 and Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Filter System. A&A in-ground cleaning system

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    If it was me, I'd look around a bit more for a motor without the pump. The two speed option is a good one, given your current equipment.

    If you can find just the motor, I'd bet you could find an electrician that would help you with the install for a lot less than the price you were quoted.

    I am curious, was that a typo, the two different prices the guy quoted?
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    A 1.5 HP WhisperFlo is a large pump, much larger than your current pump and much larger than you need. WhisperFlo pumps are larger than other pumps of the same listed HP.

    Finding an appropriate two speed motor is easy, however it sounds like your current pool guy isn't interested in doing that for you.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    You can use a B969 (115v) or a B977/B2977 (230v) as a two speed replacement motor for the SP4010 Northstar.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    beachinmoney's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    Thanks for the responses. I have looked up what motor I need. The problem is that in AZ I can't find anyone to do the install of one I purchase myself and when I tell them what I need they come back with something crazy like this Juan guy. Or if they have the motor they want to charge 100 more then I can get it for on top of another 100 for install. That's why I haven't done it yet but I'm running out of time. My motor is now leaking. I'm so frustrated.
    Last edited by beachinmoney; 04-29-2015 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Typo
    Beachinmoney, live in AZ, Pool is inground approx. 14,500 gallons of water. I have a Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST pump. The pool was built in 2006 and Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Filter System. A&A in-ground cleaning system

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    Your pump may only need a new seal. They are not that hard to install. The motor is not that hard to install either and there are plenty of youtube videos on how to do it.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    beachinmoney's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    I understand that but I want a 2 speed to cut down on the cost of electricity as well.

    I just got this information from AZ Wholesale Pool Supply and would like someone opinion... No problem. I am on the phone with my warehouse trying to track one down. But their telling me that because the Northstar pump was rare in its self, just trying to find a single is a slightly difficult task (not too much so) but a two speed for the Northstar is unheard of. Right around the time the Northstar was in existence, the industry found that a 2 speed system wren't as efficient as once thought. The lower speed ran off of 110 volts. Which, for larger appliances such as stoves, clothes driers ect, need 220 to be efficient. Running a pool pump at 110 volt uses more amperage then 220. So the idea was all but abandoned.
    Which brings me to my next point.
    The electrical run for a two speed motor is not the same as a single phase pump motor. Your current electrical will not support a two speed application. It requires an additional 110 volt wire as well as a neutral wire. (Im only basing this off of what I have seen in other peoples yards over the last 25 years. Im not as familiar with your set up obviously.)
    So considering that I will have to special order the motor directly from Haywards factory (which will cost twice the price of any normal motor, including the shipping cost of $25-$35 additional dollars.)
    As well as the cost of upgrading your electrical to accommodate a two speed motor. You have to ask if there is any pay off to going with two speed over staying with single speed. I would venture to say your investment would far exceed investing in a variable speed pump where the electrical is the same as single phase installation and the pay off will be beneficial to you in the long run.
    But per your request, I promised not to go down that road and try to sell you a whole variable pump. Only explain why two speed is not the way I think you'd want to go.
    Beachinmoney, live in AZ, Pool is inground approx. 14,500 gallons of water. I have a Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST pump. The pool was built in 2006 and Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Filter System. A&A in-ground cleaning system

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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    Your pump may only need a new seal. They are not that hard to install. The motor is not that hard to install either and there are plenty of videos on how to do it.

    https://wetheadpumprepair.com/watch/
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    I appreciate what you are saying Mark, but as I stated above. I am looking for something that will save electricity. the Hayward Northstar is a huge electricity hog.
    Beachinmoney, live in AZ, Pool is inground approx. 14,500 gallons of water. I have a Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST pump. The pool was built in 2006 and Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Filter System. A&A in-ground cleaning system

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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    But the second part of my post was to encourage you the think about replacing the motor yourself.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    beachinmoney's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    Well, after talking with many people I decided to go with the WhisperFlow. The amount I will save in electricity will be better and I won't have to worry about it anymore.
    Beachinmoney, live in AZ, Pool is inground approx. 14,500 gallons of water. I have a Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST pump. The pool was built in 2006 and Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Filter System. A&A in-ground cleaning system

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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    I am not sure you fully understand what I was saying. You CAN replace the motor on your current pump with a two speed motor and save just as much in energy if not more than the Whisperflo. The Whisperflo is a larger pump and so it will use more energy on both high and low speeds than would the Northstar with a two speed motor. Plus you would not have to touch the plumbing only replace the motor and seal.

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    You can use a B969 (115v) or a B977/B2977 (230v) as a two speed replacement motor for the SP4010 Northstar.
    These are easy motors to find.

    http://www.poolpartsonline.com/p-821...peed-115v.aspx

    I forgot to mention that most rebuilt motors don't last more than a couple of years.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    beachinmoney's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    I have had too many people tell me if the trouble with this Hayward pump and the motor to replace it is almost as expensive as the pump that I got down in price some. This pump burns out motors and it's inefficient. Just look at anyone who has bought a 2sp ez motor.

    What I see on the whisperflo looks like the amps are much lower. I will double check on's more...

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    I have the same pump and it has lasted almost 10 years so far. The Northstar has one of the most efficient wet ends on the market. Who is telling you this?

    Also, you cannot go by label amps. They don't always reflect what a motor draws in operation. It is only a limit for the motor rating.

    Also, I want to give you an idea of power draw and flow rate for each pump on the same plumbing:

    Northstar 1 FRHP: 83 GPM @ 1987 watts

    Whisperflo 1.5 FRHP: 88 GPM @ 2177 watts

    The Whisperflo will use more energy.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    Based on things like this that I posted above, On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:24 AM, John Green <john@azwpc.com> wrote:

    Those motor you list are available. And they will work, the only concern I have is the Northstar is a very heavy duty pump. When they first came out and motors were failing, we would replace them with the same motor as the standard motors. We found that they didn't last as long, since the demand from the pump was so great. So Hayward came out with the heavy duty replacement motor to keep up with the demand.
    The reason I didnt consider the motor you request was because its not made with the same durability as the recommended Northstar replacement.
    I have no issue selling you any motor you ask. And these particular ones will run off of your current electrical. And I maybe trying to over explain this to a customer who has her mind set up. But these replacement motors were designed for people who wanted to be compliant with the law with out spending the money for the savings. I have been told I over explain every little detail, to shut up and sell the customer what they ask for. (repeatedly)
    I can sell you the EB2975T for $336.85 plus tax. But we do not do the installs. We only sell the equipment. I can recommend an installer for you if you need.
    Beachinmoney, live in AZ, Pool is inground approx. 14,500 gallons of water. I have a Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST pump. The pool was built in 2006 and Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Filter System. A&A in-ground cleaning system

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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    I am getting a quote for the B2977 with a toggle. If I can get that for around $250 then I may do that. I am waiting on the last quote to come back. I'm just tired of not knowing and my boyfriend may never install it.... Thanks for all the help. I have been stressing over this for two years now. Heck, maybe I can do it myself without his help.
    Beachinmoney, live in AZ, Pool is inground approx. 14,500 gallons of water. I have a Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST pump. The pool was built in 2006 and Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Filter System. A&A in-ground cleaning system

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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    The reason that many of the motors failed was because of yahoos like this guy that don't put the correct motor size on the pump. The EB2975T he recommends is too small for your pump and would burn out quickly. What ever you do, don't get this motor. You need the EB2977T or equivalent (B977/B2977). The EB2975 has a THP (HP * service factor) of 1.4 while your pump requires a motor with a THP of 1.86 or higher. The EB2977 has a THP of 1.95 so it is slightly over sized for the pump but that is good thing and it means the motor will run at a lower load (lower heat) than designed.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    beachinmoney's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    Okay, I got the B2977 with a toggle for $224 no tax includes shipping.... Thank you for sticking with me!!! )) Seriously I have been trying to do this for almost two years. I just got a firm commitment that my "BF"??? will install it...

    - - - Updated - - -

    BTW, best price and service, Gary Obergfell

    800-760-2065 ext. 3703

    gary@electricmotors.com

    http://www.electricmotors.com
    Beachinmoney, live in AZ, Pool is inground approx. 14,500 gallons of water. I have a Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST pump. The pool was built in 2006 and Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Filter System. A&A in-ground cleaning system

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    Did you order a new go-kit too?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    beachinmoney's Avatar
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    Re: Pump leaking water, time to upgrade to 2 speed need advice

    OHHH Geezzzz, now I get this, that it is a 1 hp not a 1.5... I won't need a new impeller will I?

    - - - Updated - - -

    yes, I did

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hayward said that with the SPX1610z2MNS I wouldn't need a new impeller, isn't the B2977 the same thing? I told him I would get back to him in ten minutes...

    - - - Updated - - -

    He says this. Different mfg. of motors use different “Horsepower ratings” for marketing purposes. The 8.6 amps indicates a 1hp.

    Our 1.5 hp is about 11amps. He said he can do either one. I need the 1.5 don't I???
    Beachinmoney, live in AZ, Pool is inground approx. 14,500 gallons of water. I have a Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST pump. The pool was built in 2006 and Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Filter System. A&A in-ground cleaning system

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