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Thread: Aeration

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    ngc4900's Avatar
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    Aeration

    Hello

    I have been reading the website with respect to increasing pH while maintaining TA.

    I understand that Borax has two uses in TFP.

    1. To increase the pH while having minimal effect on TA

    2. As a CL stabilizer? Where one needs to maintain 50 ppm of Borate. I guess it helps decrease the amount of CL needed and makes the pool sparkle?


    Recently I did a partial drain (40%) and my starting pH is below 6.8, obviously the lowest number on the test block. I fell into the trap of chasing the pH by adding baking soda. Please see my numbers below.


    I really donít want to use Borax because I donít want the hassle of having to measure another test (borate levels), nor do I want something else in the pool that can only be decreased by removing water.

    That brings me to my question regarding aeration. I have a submersible pump. What can I buy off the self to use as an aeration device? Does the water have to spray over the pool to be effective?

    Thanks so much.


    pH < 6.8
    FC- 6.0
    CC- 0.0
    TA - 200
    CH - 150
    CYA - 28
    Indoor Endless Pool (IG). Aug 2012, 5200 Gal. Vinyl, Pleatco PWW10-M filters, Gecko controller, Laing pump, TFT 100

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    Many people just build a little "fountain" using PVC pipe.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    There is absolutely no reason to avoid using borax, nor do you need to test the borate level when only using borax to adjust PH. However, in your current situation, with very high TA, aeration would be the best way to raise the PH.

    Using either the main pool pump, or a separate submersible pump to make a fountain of some kind is an easy way to create aeration. For the largest possible effect you want something with many separate jets praying down towards the water, but just about any kind of fountain will work.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    Skippy just puts the sump pump on the top step in the pool water and uses a short piece of garden hose tied to the pool grab bar to discharge the water directly back into the pool. The hose is high enough that it makes a bit of a splash when the water re-enters the pool so it helps aerate the water.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    As a side note, make sure the pump you use is rated for a pool or that it is not on when anyone is in the pool. I have a 1/5hp submersible pump, and it says specifically not for pool use on the side; even though it is grounded.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    I knew I had a picture around someplace...
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    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    ngc4900's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    Thanks everyone.

    I will rig up an aerator with my pump.

    I will buy some Borax, PM recommends 110 Oz by dry volume. So I guess you only have to measure Borate levels when you are using Borax chronically? correct?

    Now that I am stuck with a TA of 200, by my own fault, is Areation my only option to lower the TA? Or do I need another partial pool draining. It's really a shame, because my water source had a TA of 120.... I am idiot. But this is the first time I have done a partial drain.

    Thanks
    Indoor Endless Pool (IG). Aug 2012, 5200 Gal. Vinyl, Pleatco PWW10-M filters, Gecko controller, Laing pump, TFT 100

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    Aeration

    About $7 of pvc pipe and a drill bit.
    Screws right into the return fitting.


    I did it initially to cool the water. Unintended consequence was the Ph rise which, with a SWG pool, is bad enough. But my pool was 95 degrees and almost unswimmable.


    30x20 vinyl IG, Hayward SD60 with Pentair Dynamo 340219 2HP pump, Compupool CPSC24 SWG, Hayward H200FDN heater. APC automatic pool cover.
    Central Illinois

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    ngc4900's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    Wait a minute, PM shows I will increase my TA by another 41... that's bad. It does show borate will go to 18. And pH will raise 2.3. My understanding is that a borate level less than 50 is ok? Is borate only lowered by draining the pool?

    Do I have time to lower the TA gently, vinyl liner, or do I need to do it quick.

    thanks again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Bdex, thanks for the pic. Is the spray pipe about 2 FT long?
    Indoor Endless Pool (IG). Aug 2012, 5200 Gal. Vinyl, Pleatco PWW10-M filters, Gecko controller, Laing pump, TFT 100

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    Stop. What are you trying to accomplish?
    Why would you raise the pH by 2.3?

    Aeration will not lower your TA. It will only raise your pH. Then you can use acid to lower both the pH and the TA. This is a long slow process. Read: Lower Total Alkalinity
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    ngc4900's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    Thanks for the link. I have read it a few times. So my options are limited. Aerate to raise PH (no effect on TA), then when the pH goes to 7.6, add acid and repeat the cycle. I understand that will take days.

    So do I have the time to use this method or should I start over and do a partial drain and get back to the TA of 120 where I started before adding the baking soda. In other words how serious is a TA of 200 on my vinyl liner...... hope that makes sense.
    Indoor Endless Pool (IG). Aug 2012, 5200 Gal. Vinyl, Pleatco PWW10-M filters, Gecko controller, Laing pump, TFT 100

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    The TA will have ZERO effect on your liner. You could completely ignore TA and just keep your pH in range. The higher TA will just mean the pH will rise faster and require more frequent additions of acid to keep it in range. This will in turn also slowly lower the TA. The process I linked to above is only if you want to try to force the TA to drop faster, but there is no real requirement to do so.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    ngc4900's Avatar
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    Re: Aeration

    thanks for the help everyone.
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    Indoor Endless Pool (IG). Aug 2012, 5200 Gal. Vinyl, Pleatco PWW10-M filters, Gecko controller, Laing pump, TFT 100

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